Jacob Rees-Mogg

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Discussion

Carl_Manchester

12,103 posts

261 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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And God looked down from upon his mountain and with great anger and fire he did say: 'those who keep nesting posts on the PH forum shalt be given 50 lashes'.

And with much puzzlement and frowning the PH forum posters kept nesting their posts.

and David raised his arms and said 'please forgive them lord for they not know what they do'.

BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Carl_Manchester said:
And God looked down from upon his mountain and with great anger and fire he did say: 'those who keep nesting posts on the PH forum shalt be given 50 lashes'.

And with much puzzlement and frowning the PH forum posters kept nesting their posts.

and David raised his arms and said 'please forgive them lord for they not know what they do'.
laugh

loafer123

15,404 posts

214 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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Carl_Manchester said:
And God looked down from upon his mountain and with great anger and fire he did say: 'those who keep nesting posts on the PH forum shalt be given 50 lashes'.

And with much puzzlement and frowning the PH forum posters kept nesting their posts.

and David raised his arms and said 'please forgive them lord for they not know what they do'.
8/10

I was hoping for more smiting.

Jinx

11,345 posts

259 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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chrispmartha said:
There are many many things that really aren't possible.
Multiverse anyone?
chrispmartha said:
On your second point, sounds like utter rubbish spouted by religious people who have no answer to reason to me.
You asked why He was worthy of praise - that is really a personal question for yourself to answer. Put it this way, I don't worship One Direction but plenty of teenagers do - if I asked them why they are worthy of praise would any of their reasons compel me to do the same? The second point was also a paraphrase of Job 38:4 so a little facetious on my part. I am not telling people to believe in God merely trying to tease out some better reasoning than "there is no god 'cause bad things happen" argument.



Angrybiker

557 posts

89 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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BMWBen said:
Didn't think so. I've pointed out what the flaw is in what you said earlier, you haven't responded other than to say "I'm obviously wrong" but without any further justification or attempt at explaining why.

Much like you did earlier in the thread too. Seems like a rather pointless contribution to me!
No, Ben. I simply have better things to do than explain to you why 1+1 doesn't = 3.

How about you humour me instead and provide me with the approved scientific research that proves why we shouldn't kill each other? Or can't you do that?? Because if you can't, or don't want to then, by your reasoning, it must mean that we have to be killing everyone all the time.

loafer123

15,404 posts

214 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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Jinx said:
chrispmartha said:
There are many many things that really aren't possible.
Multiverse anyone?
chrispmartha said:
On your second point, sounds like utter rubbish spouted by religious people who have no answer to reason to me.
You asked why He was worthy of praise - that is really a personal question for yourself to answer. Put it this way, I don't worship One Direction but plenty of teenagers do - if I asked them why they are worthy of praise would any of their reasons compel me to do the same? The second point was also a paraphrase of Job 38:4 so a little facetious on my part. I am not telling people to believe in God merely trying to tease out some better reasoning than "there is no god 'cause bad things happen" argument.
Except One Direction definitely exist. We've seen them. People have been to their concerts and they have been standing there in front of them. We may like them, or we may not, but our opinions are based on an actual something.



AstonZagato

12,652 posts

209 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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loafer123 said:
Jinx said:
chrispmartha said:
There are many many things that really aren't possible.
Multiverse anyone?
chrispmartha said:
On your second point, sounds like utter rubbish spouted by religious people who have no answer to reason to me.
You asked why He was worthy of praise - that is really a personal question for yourself to answer. Put it this way, I don't worship One Direction but plenty of teenagers do - if I asked them why they are worthy of praise would any of their reasons compel me to do the same? The second point was also a paraphrase of Job 38:4 so a little facetious on my part. I am not telling people to believe in God merely trying to tease out some better reasoning than "there is no god 'cause bad things happen" argument.
Except One Direction definitely exist. We've seen them. People have been to their concerts and they have been standing there in front of them. We may like them, or we may not, but our opinions are based on an actual something.
Do they perform their own music though?

Jinx

11,345 posts

259 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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loafer123 said:
Except One Direction definitely exist. We've seen them. People have been to their concerts and they have been standing there in front of them. We may like them, or we may not, but our opinions are based on an actual something.
And? To those who praise God, He exists. Many thing also exist without praise. Praise and existing are not mutually dependent.

loafer123

15,404 posts

214 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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Jinx said:
And? To those who praise God, He exists. Many thing also exist without praise. Praise and existing are not mutually dependent.
If you want to praise a God that doesn’t exist, that is, of course, entirely up to you.

A bit bizarre to my mind, but each to their own.

Angrybiker

557 posts

89 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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loafer123 said:
Jinx said:
And? To those who praise God, He exists. Many thing also exist without praise. Praise and existing are not mutually dependent.
If you want to praise a God that doesn’t exist, that is, of course, entirely up to you.

A bit bizarre to my mind, but each to their own.
lol again.

...And if you want to believe that the formation of galaxies relies on some strange 'dark matter' which clearly doesn't exist because you can't see or measure it, or demonstrate that it exists in any way shape or form, then entirely up to you.

Bit bizarre to my mind, but each to their own.

BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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Angrybiker said:
BMWBen said:
Didn't think so. I've pointed out what the flaw is in what you said earlier, you haven't responded other than to say "I'm obviously wrong" but without any further justification or attempt at explaining why.

Much like you did earlier in the thread too. Seems like a rather pointless contribution to me!
No, Ben. I simply have better things to do than explain to you why 1+1 doesn't = 3.

How about you humour me instead and provide me with the approved scientific research that proves why we shouldn't kill each other? Or can't you do that?? Because if you can't, or don't want to then, by your reasoning, it must mean that we have to be killing everyone all the time.
I'm not asking you to explain why 1+1 doesn't equal three. I'm asking you to explain your logic about something more complex than that, which clearly either isn't trivial or isn't possible as you haven't just gone and done it so stop claiming that it is. I presented a reasoned logical argument and all you've said is "well duh that's obviously wrong lol".

Please also explain what relevance your question has? You seem to be attempting to draw an analogy to explain something about something I've said, but I don't know what it is or if the analogy is even remotely valid.

The pattern you seem to follow in your arguments is "well that's really simple and obvious, so you must be stupid" whilst presenting something that isn't simple and obvious and is actual nuanced and worthy of debate.

I can see why religious beliefs are appealing to you jester

Angrybiker

557 posts

89 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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yes, you say something that's clearly bks, and I say 'that's bks'. That's it, no more. I'm not here to tell you why, if you can't see it then that's a shame for you. That I can't be bothered to explain to you why it's bks doesn't negate the fact that it is bks.

This is a forum, not a debate on religion held by people bright and informed enough to be credible in that debate. If it were, you would not be there.

and with that I bow out of this discussion until it goes back to the topic of JRM.

Edited by Angrybiker on Thursday 21st September 15:36

BMWBen

4,899 posts

200 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
quotequote all
Angrybiker said:
yes, you say something that's clearly bks, and I say 'that's bks'. That's it, no more. I'm not here to tell you why, if you can't see it then that's a shame for you. That I can't be bothered to explain to you why it's bks doesn't negate the fact that it is bks.

This is a forum, not a debate on religion held by people bright and informed enough to be credible in that debate. If it were, you would not be there.

and with that I bow out of this discussion until it goes back to the topic of JRM.

Edited by Angrybiker on Thursday 21st September 15:36
Thanks, I think there's enough here for people to make up their own minds laugh You are certainly a strange one!

Einion Yrth

19,575 posts

243 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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BMWBen said:
Angrybiker said:
yes, you say something that's clearly bks, and I say 'that's bks'. That's it, no more. I'm not here to tell you why, if you can't see it then that's a shame for you. That I can't be bothered to explain to you why it's bks doesn't negate the fact that it is bks.

This is a forum, not a debate on religion held by people bright and informed enough to be credible in that debate. If it were, you would not be there.

and with that I bow out of this discussion until it goes back to the topic of JRM.

Edited by Angrybiker on Thursday 21st September 15:36
Thanks, I think there's enough here for people to make up their own minds laugh You are certainly a strange one!
I've made my mind up; he's quite big on belief, logic? Not so much.

Carl_Manchester

12,103 posts

261 months

Thursday 21st September 2017
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circular argument? I have had a shot of red label so I will have a go at my interpretation.

the above illustrates why arguments on religion are simply a manifestation of the travelling salesman problem. It is a solvable problem given infinite time, can you answer the problem now? no but can you prove the problem is solvable? yes.

people that use logic and scientific reasoning want an answer now, those with faith can give answer to the problem but only if time is infinite. hence, the travelling salesman.

Alas, Mogg's time is not infinite and I will be waiting with baited breath to see what he makes of PM May's speed tomorrow in Florence as he will surely pop up on the BBC at some point tomorrow to make a reasoned and logical argument.

A man of faith making a reasoned and logical argument, whatever next?


XCP

16,876 posts

227 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
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Oilchange said:
I wonder if it was a deliberate bit of misdirection to stop all the Mogg mentum stuff...
I wondered exactly the same thing. I don't think JRM wants to be leader or PM. And why would he?

Alpinestars

13,954 posts

243 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
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Carl_Manchester said:
circular argument? I have had a shot of red label so I will have a go at my interpretation.

the above illustrates why arguments on religion are simply a manifestation of the travelling salesman problem. It is a solvable problem given infinite time, can you answer the problem now? no but can you prove the problem is solvable? yes.

people that use logic and scientific reasoning want an answer now, those with faith can give answer to the problem but only if time is infinite. hence, the travelling salesman.

Alas, Mogg's time is not infinite and I will be waiting with baited breath to see what he makes of PM May's speed tomorrow in Florence as he will surely pop up on the BBC at some point tomorrow to make a reasoned and logical argument.

A man of faith making a reasoned and logical argument, whatever next?
How is it solvable with infinite time? Let's assume God doesn't exist. How will time prove that?

Jinx

11,345 posts

259 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
Jinx said:
And? To those who praise God, He exists. Many thing also exist without praise. Praise and existing are not mutually dependent.
If you want to praise a God that doesn’t exist, that is, of course, entirely up to you.

A bit bizarre to my mind, but each to their own.
This wasn't about me - I was postulating for the benefit of those that haven't put much thought into their arguments. But yes live and let live.

Carl_Manchester

12,103 posts

261 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
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Alpinestars said:
How is it solvable with infinite time? Let's assume God doesn't exist. How will time prove that?
by simply waiting until the end of days.

got a light ?

ATG

20,485 posts

271 months

Friday 22nd September 2017
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Carl_Manchester said:
Alpinestars said:
How is it solvable with infinite time? Let's assume God doesn't exist. How will time prove that?
by simply waiting until the end of days.

got a light ?
If there's an end of days then time isn't infinite in extent into the future.

Also the travelling salesman problem doesn't require infinite time to solve. At worst the time required to solve a TSP increases exponentially with the number of cities that the salesman needs to visit.