Double glazing unit repair?

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Jimmy No Hands

Original Poster:

5,008 posts

155 months

Monday 7th March 2016
quotequote all
And up next on the list of "Things you don't think about or concern yourself with until you buy a house for the first time"

A few of my double glazing units have failed recently, as in I'm assuming the seal has gone as the condensation has formed inside. Knowing about as much about double glazed windows as I do leaky showers (see other thread) I thought I'd ask here.

Is this something that is repairable or is it just a case of purchasing new units to fit in? The units are 14 years old and I've requested a callback from the original fitters just wanted to know if it's a costly job or not. There is a local company who claims to be able to repair them but am I better off getting new ones?


Much obliged.

Pheo

3,324 posts

201 months

Monday 7th March 2016
quotequote all
Very cheap from a local specialising in repairs. They just swap out the glass.

Only worthwhile swapping out the windows if the frames are knackered (like ours were!) I wouldn't expect to need to within 14 years.

I think we paid £120 for three standard panes.

Jimmy No Hands

Original Poster:

5,008 posts

155 months

Monday 7th March 2016
quotequote all
Thanks Pheo, the frames look perfectly serviceable to me. I'll ring the local chap tomorrow with the dimensions and see what he quotes. Wasn't too sure if repairing them was a 'thing'

motco

15,919 posts

245 months

Monday 7th March 2016
quotequote all
There are companies that purport to repair them, but I have no idea how effective the repair is. If there's a leak in the previously hermetically sealed unit edge gasket then no amount of washing out and flushing with drying fluids will repair it and stop the problem from recurring. I have a failed window that is hundreds of pounds worth of sealed unit - 2.4 x 1.4m and it is misty in some atmospheric conditions but clear in others. I am constantly agonising about whether to shell out or not.

Pheo

3,324 posts

201 months

Monday 7th March 2016
quotequote all
motco said:
There are companies that purport to repair them, but I have no idea how effective the repair is. If there's a leak in the previously hermetically sealed unit edge gasket then no amount of washing out and flushing with drying fluids will repair it and stop the problem from recurring. I have a failed window that is hundreds of pounds worth of sealed unit - 2.4 x 1.4m and it is misty in some atmospheric conditions but clear in others. I am constantly agonising about whether to shell out or not.
Sorry, I meant to be clear, new glazing unit, but not new frames.

motco

15,919 posts

245 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
Pheo said:
motco said:
There are companies that purport to repair them, but I have no idea how effective the repair is. If there's a leak in the previously hermetically sealed unit edge gasket then no amount of washing out and flushing with drying fluids will repair it and stop the problem from recurring. I have a failed window that is hundreds of pounds worth of sealed unit - 2.4 x 1.4m and it is misty in some atmospheric conditions but clear in others. I am constantly agonising about whether to shell out or not.
Sorry, I meant to be clear, new glazing unit, but not new frames.
You were clear - I am talking about sealed unit only too. I'll look out the quote for mine when I get a chance.

Jamp

199 posts

135 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
Same problem here. Is a Fensa certificate required for replacement of the glass only (retaining the frames)? I think the date of manufacture is printed on the spacer bar and surveyors look for this, so might be an issue come resale if there's no Fensa cert, unless one isn't necessary and you keep the invoice to prove what you've done?

monty999

1,113 posts

104 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
motco said:
There are companies that purport to repair them, but I have no idea how effective the repair is. If there's a leak in the previously hermetically sealed unit edge gasket then no amount of washing out and flushing with drying fluids will repair it and stop the problem from recurring. I have a failed window that is hundreds of pounds worth of sealed unit - 2.4 x 1.4m and it is misty in some atmospheric conditions but clear in others. I am constantly agonising about whether to shell out or not.
I have seen units that have been 'repaired' in situ by some clowns who think that drilling a small hole top and bottom of the inside unit then putting a mesh plug in each hole to supply fresh air to pass through the unit to prevent misting up condensation. This is now no longer a 'sealed unit' and has no thermal or acoustic properties. The condensation in your unit will show probably when the sun shines directly on it, warms the unit up therefore evaporating the moisture in the air within the unit which then condenses on the coolest surface (glass). Replacement is the only way, the unit will need to be first removed for measurement (size and thickness) then replaced until a new one is made.Normally not too expensive (1m x 500mm would probably cost £40-£50 fitted),Your unit may be either toughened or 6mm laminated for that size, hence removal to check ( I would guess somewhere around £150-£200 ish tops).

monty999

1,113 posts

104 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
Pheo said:
Very cheap from a local specialising in repairs. They just swap out the glass.

Only worthwhile swapping out the windows if the frames are knackered (like ours were!) I wouldn't expect to need to within 14 years.

I think we paid £120 for three standard panes.
That sound about right to me , providing no leading , not toughened and internally beaded. (external beading requires a little more and may involve security taping- would think that 14 years old they are internal)

eltawater

3,107 posts

178 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
I had one of my panes replaced by a local fitter a couple of years ago as it was the middle of five and the condensation really grated on the nerves.

The fitter pointed out that due to the age, the rest of them wouldn't be far behind and sure enough six months later I had two more panes going cloudy. He also recommended that rather than replacing one-two at a time, it would be more cost effective replace more/all of them at once due to the better economies of scale / costs to site visit.

motco

15,919 posts

245 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
monty999 said:
motco said:
There are companies that purport to repair them, but I have no idea how effective the repair is. If there's a leak in the previously hermetically sealed unit edge gasket then no amount of washing out and flushing with drying fluids will repair it and stop the problem from recurring. I have a failed window that is hundreds of pounds worth of sealed unit - 2.4 x 1.4m and it is misty in some atmospheric conditions but clear in others. I am constantly agonising about whether to shell out or not.
I have seen units that have been 'repaired' in situ by some clowns who think that drilling a small hole top and bottom of the inside unit then putting a mesh plug in each hole to supply fresh air to pass through the unit to prevent misting up condensation. This is now no longer a 'sealed unit' and has no thermal or acoustic properties. The condensation in your unit will show probably when the sun shines directly on it, warms the unit up therefore evaporating the moisture in the air within the unit which then condenses on the coolest surface (glass). Replacement is the only way, the unit will need to be first removed for measurement (size and thickness) then replaced until a new one is made.Normally not too expensive (1m x 500mm would probably cost £40-£50 fitted),Your unit may be either toughened or 6mm laminated for that size, hence removal to check ( I would guess somewhere around £150-£200 ish tops).
£480 inc VAT fitted

hobbiniho1

92 posts

96 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
motco said:
monty999 said:
motco said:
There are companies that purport to repair them, but I have no idea how effective the repair is. If there's a leak in the previously hermetically sealed unit edge gasket then no amount of washing out and flushing with drying fluids will repair it and stop the problem from recurring. I have a failed window that is hundreds of pounds worth of sealed unit - 2.4 x 1.4m and it is misty in some atmospheric conditions but clear in others. I am constantly agonising about whether to shell out or not.
I have seen units that have been 'repaired' in situ by some clowns who think that drilling a small hole top and bottom of the inside unit then putting a mesh plug in each hole to supply fresh air to pass through the unit to prevent misting up condensation. This is now no longer a 'sealed unit' and has no thermal or acoustic properties. The condensation in your unit will show probably when the sun shines directly on it, warms the unit up therefore evaporating the moisture in the air within the unit which then condenses on the coolest surface (glass). Replacement is the only way, the unit will need to be first removed for measurement (size and thickness) then replaced until a new one is made.Normally not too expensive (1m x 500mm would probably cost £40-£50 fitted),Your unit may be either toughened or 6mm laminated for that size, hence removal to check ( I would guess somewhere around £150-£200 ish tops).
£480 inc VAT fitted
i wouldnt like to be the one to fit that, its rather large so i can see why it costs so much, im guessiing that the cill is lower than 800mm so it will be toughened on the inside? as for monty999 saying that the glass has to be removed to measure, that is wrong and any glazing person that removes glass to measure it isnt very professional, as the tools exist to measure not only the thickness of the glass but also the cavity, i use a glasdickenmesser which is a very simple yet highly effective bit of plastic

FlipFlopGriff

7,144 posts

246 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
New ones aren't expensive and its and easy DIY job. I had 2 made up recently (around 1.5m x 1m each) and they were around £60 for the 2. Just searched a few in W Yorkshire and come up with these:
http://www.whiteleysglass.com/doubleglazed.aspx
http://www.oaklandglass.co.uk/
http://www.tudor-glass.co.uk/
FFG

motco

15,919 posts

245 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
I had a smaller one replaced last year by the same firm and they didn't need to remove the unit to measure it.

monty999

1,113 posts

104 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
hobbiniho1 said:
i wouldnt like to be the one to fit that, its rather large so i can see why it costs so much, im guessiing that the cill is lower than 800mm so it will be toughened on the inside? as for monty999 saying that the glass has to be removed to measure, that is wrong and any glazing person that removes glass to measure it isnt very professional, as the tools exist to measure not only the thickness of the glass but also the cavity, i use a glasdickenmesser which is a very simple yet highly effective bit of plastic
Wow £480 ! that's some special unit, although you are paying for 2 person labour obviously. Like you said there are measurement devices available , but I like to see the clearance within the frame as not all frames are guaranteed to be perfectly square. Also I believe that both leaves have to be toughened not just the inside.

Jimmy No Hands

Original Poster:

5,008 posts

155 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
I've had a quote of £160 fitted for the three I require, which I'm pretty content with. Requested a site visit to confirm the quote/sizes hopefully this weekend.

As a poster above mentioned though I do feel like the rest are probably at the end of their shelf life, this is the third in a few months. Might be an idea while he's here to just get a quote for the lot.

(Ironically we're selling for somewhere bigger, great timing)


Thanks all.

motco

15,919 posts

245 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
quotequote all
monty999 said:
hobbiniho1 said:
i wouldnt like to be the one to fit that, its rather large so i can see why it costs so much, im guessiing that the cill is lower than 800mm so it will be toughened on the inside? as for monty999 saying that the glass has to be removed to measure, that is wrong and any glazing person that removes glass to measure it isnt very professional, as the tools exist to measure not only the thickness of the glass but also the cavity, i use a glasdickenmesser which is a very simple yet highly effective bit of plastic
Wow £480 ! that's some special unit, although you are paying for 2 person labour obviously. Like you said there are measurement devices available , but I like to see the clearance within the frame as not all frames are guaranteed to be perfectly square. Also I believe that both leaves have to be toughened not just the inside.
Look at the sitting room window of this house in a village near me. The outside rear view shows the window size best.

Rightmove

I viewed this at an open day when it was for sale about three or four years ago and that window is spectacular.

kinabalu

239 posts

198 months

Wednesday 9th March 2016
quotequote all
This topic prompted me to measure up our 4 failed units, all south facing, in Leeds, upvc frame.

Phoned for an estimate on

1.1 x 0.6 metres
0.4 0.9
0.6 0.5
1.3 1.1

Gulp, £600.

Rosscow

8,723 posts

162 months

Wednesday 9th March 2016
quotequote all
kinabalu said:
This topic prompted me to measure up our 4 failed units, all south facing, in Leeds, upvc frame.

Phoned for an estimate on

1.1 x 0.6 metres
0.4 0.9
0.6 0.5
1.3 1.1

Gulp, £600.
That's an absolute rip off.

You're looking at less than £100 of glass (and I've worked that out on a very good 1.0 U value unit with warm edge spacers, argon gas and Planitherm One coatings).
I haven't allowed for toughened glass (but even so, you're still looking at less than £125).

It's most definitely not £500 of labour to fit them!

You should be looking at less than £300 fitted as far as I'm concerned (excluding VAT).

I'd order the units and do it myself if I were you - it's very easy to do into UPVC.

Jimmy No Hands

Original Poster:

5,008 posts

155 months

Wednesday 9th March 2016
quotequote all
I'm tempted to do it myself now.. the biggest unit I require is about 575 mm x 495 mm. I found a site online that sells the unit for £15 inc. VAT, the other two I need are smaller. I bet the unit cost comes to less than £60 in total. So probably £100 for the fitting.

How do you get an accurate measurement of the spacebar? It's defaulted to 20 mm. Can I just pull one out and measure it?
Think my biggest concern would just be ordering the wrong bloody size in some aspect or another. hehe