Elite Tax Haven Details Leaked

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Discussion

edh

3,498 posts

268 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
edh said:
One word: productivity.

Why does a French worker produce more in 4 days than a British worker does in 5?

Our productivity gap is a major issue, probably due to financial short termism and underinvestment. What drives this? The financial sector.
It's one of the stock answers that the UK economy has a problem with low productivity. It's actually not that simple. French productivity maybe higher than the UK but French unemployment is also much higher than in the UK. Those two facts may be related.

As for this being the result of short term view in financial services just does not add up since the investment structure in France is very similar to the UK.
It's the answer to James' question. It has been the answer for the last 200 years or more.

There is no disputing that UK productivity growth has been dismal over the past 10 years. Interested to hear what other explanations you have for it.

Can't be regulation can it? Not if the French and Germans do better than us.



hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
edh said:
Mrr T said:
edh said:
One word: productivity.

Why does a French worker produce more in 4 days than a British worker does in 5?

Our productivity gap is a major issue, probably due to financial short termism and underinvestment. What drives this? The financial sector.
It's one of the stock answers that the UK economy has a problem with low productivity. It's actually not that simple. French productivity maybe higher than the UK but French unemployment is also much higher than in the UK. Those two facts may be related.

As for this being the result of short term view in financial services just does not add up since the investment structure in France is very similar to the UK.
It's the answer to James' question. It has been the answer for the last 200 years or more.

There is no disputing that UK productivity growth has been dismal over the past 10 years. Interested to hear what other explanations you have for it.

Can't be regulation can it? Not if the French and Germans do better than us.
Perhaps our low wage/openness to Zero hours and so on encourages employers to throw more bodies in, rather than invest in training/skills. That would account for the lower unemployment compared to France.

edh

3,498 posts

268 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
hyphen said:
edh said:
Mrr T said:
edh said:
One word: productivity.

Why does a French worker produce more in 4 days than a British worker does in 5?

Our productivity gap is a major issue, probably due to financial short termism and underinvestment. What drives this? The financial sector.
It's one of the stock answers that the UK economy has a problem with low productivity. It's actually not that simple. French productivity maybe higher than the UK but French unemployment is also much higher than in the UK. Those two facts may be related.

As for this being the result of short term view in financial services just does not add up since the investment structure in France is very similar to the UK.
It's the answer to James' question. It has been the answer for the last 200 years or more.

There is no disputing that UK productivity growth has been dismal over the past 10 years. Interested to hear what other explanations you have for it.

Can't be regulation can it? Not if the French and Germans do better than us.
Perhaps our low wage/openness to Zero hours and so on encourages employers to throw more bodies in, rather than invest in training/skills. That would account for the lower unemployment compared to France.
Yet we're told that unemployment is very low, and the BoE has been forecasting wage pickup for years now because of this. It hasn't happened. It rather defies conventional economic wisdom.

Perhaps we are all too busy selling houses to each other?

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
El stovey said:
hehe

Some of the posts from posters like James B are a fascinating insight into the kind of mindset that helped cause the financial crisis. It would be more amusing if they didn’t hold positions of responsibility in financial institutions but there you go.
The post you noted had bugger all to do with the financial crisis. It was options for running a business.

It may be better for someone to make £9 rather than £0 when an uncompetitive business ceases to exist. Then again, people might not agree.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
edh said:
. It has been the answer for the last 200 years or more.
Really? I thought LVT was the answer to everything. This is so confusing. As an aside I genuinely struggle to understand how the French are more productive than us. I love the French way of life precisely for their love of enjoying life and sitting around eating, drinking and smoking all day and not working.

edh

3,498 posts

268 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
fblm said:
Really? I thought LVT was the answer to everything. This is so confusing.
biggrin

fblm said:
As an aside I genuinely struggle to understand how the French are more productive than us. I love the French way of life precisely for their love of enjoying life and sitting around eating, drinking and smoking all day and not working.
Agreed, it's a mystery.

AstonZagato

12,652 posts

209 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
fblm said:
Really? I thought LVT was the answer to everything. This is so confusing. As an aside I genuinely struggle to understand how the French are more productive than us. I love the French way of life precisely for their love of enjoying life and sitting around eating, drinking and smoking all day and not working.
I always thought it was because GDP figures are essentially made up and that the French civil servants were slightly more creative in their approach than the staid British ones - probably so they could get back to eating, drinking and smoking more quickly.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
AstonZagato said:
I always thought it was because GDP figures are essentially made up and that the French civil servants were slightly more creative in their approach than the staid British ones - probably so they could get back to eating, drinking and smoking more quickly.
You have to admire how they fit it all in, especially with a couple of mistresses each to satisfy.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
AstonZagato said:
fblm said:
Really? I thought LVT was the answer to everything. This is so confusing. As an aside I genuinely struggle to understand how the French are more productive than us. I love the French way of life precisely for their love of enjoying life and sitting around eating, drinking and smoking all day and not working.
I always thought it was because GDP figures are essentially made up and that the French civil servants were slightly more creative in their approach than the staid British ones - probably so they could get back to eating, drinking and smoking more quickly.
They have an aerospace industry, a car manufacturing industry, a better health service than us, better schools than us....what are they doing right that were not?

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
edh said:
hyphen said:
edh said:
Mrr T said:
edh said:
One word: productivity.

Why does a French worker produce more in 4 days than a British worker does in 5?

Our productivity gap is a major issue, probably due to financial short termism and underinvestment. What drives this? The financial sector.
It's one of the stock answers that the UK economy has a problem with low productivity. It's actually not that simple. French productivity maybe higher than the UK but French unemployment is also much higher than in the UK. Those two facts may be related.

As for this being the result of short term view in financial services just does not add up since the investment structure in France is very similar to the UK.
It's the answer to James' question. It has been the answer for the last 200 years or more.

There is no disputing that UK productivity growth has been dismal over the past 10 years. Interested to hear what other explanations you have for it.

Can't be regulation can it? Not if the French and Germans do better than us.
Perhaps our low wage/openness to Zero hours and so on encourages employers to throw more bodies in, rather than invest in training/skills. That would account for the lower unemployment compared to France.
Yet we're told that unemployment is very low, and the BoE has been forecasting wage pickup for years now because of this. It hasn't happened. It rather defies conventional economic wisdom.

Perhaps we are all too busy selling houses to each other?
The relationship between unemployment and productivity is the other way round. If even unproductive people can find work, average productivity falls. Similarly wages are only stagnant if you look at people already in work and don't allow for formerly unemployed people now getting wages. When someone long term unemployed so presumably low skilled finally gets a job, their wages will probably be well below average so the average wage drops even if everyone else is getting the same as before. But in this case nobody is worse off.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
fblm said:
Really? I thought LVT was the answer to everything. This is so confusing. As an aside I genuinely struggle to understand how the French are more productive than us. I love the French way of life precisely for their love of enjoying life and sitting around eating, drinking and smoking all day and not working.
Productivity is calculated per hour worked. If you have Monday off with a hangover, have a public holiday on Tuesday, go on strike on Thursday then start Le Weekend on Friday then you may as well spend Wednesday doing whatever task is most productive rather than have meetings etc. So average productivity per hour worked is high because the hours spent sitting around being French aren't taken into consideration.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 11th November 2017
quotequote all
Countdown said:
They have an aerospace industry, a car manufacturing industry, a better health service than us, better schools than us....what are they doing right that were not?
The last bit. In all seriousness a good friend of mine went to one of the Grand Ecoles in Paris, he's a derivative trader but he reckoned about half his graduating class went into the french or eu civil service, conversely I don't know a single person from my Uni who did.

Burwood

18,709 posts

245 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
James_B said:
Alpinestars said:
Doing what? Anyone can go and get a job in Dubai and "double" their salary if there's a job out there.
The last two people who I know who did the move both traded dollar interest rate swaps.

Why do you ask?
Why go to Dubai to do that? My old neighbour moved to the Caymans. He was an interest rate futures trader. Probably the best of his kind.

Dubai’s great for a holiday. I’m not so sure about taking the kids out there to live. Several couples we know have done it when opportunities came up via work. A 2-3 year stint is fine. But I’d worry a bit about the schools. I’m sure they are ok but. The biggest issue was the wives getting used to maids and this pampered life style. I’d find the heat a bit tedious

Edited by Burwood on Sunday 12th November 07:08

Alpinestars

13,954 posts

243 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
James_B said:
Alpinestars said:
Doing what? Anyone can go and get a job in Dubai and "double" their salary if there's a job out there.
The last two people who I know who did the move both traded dollar interest rate swaps.

Why do you ask?
Because the option is not dependent upon your income levels. If you work out there, and live there, you pay local income tax ie, nil.

Zed 44

1,242 posts

155 months

Sunday 12th November 2017
quotequote all
To compare the Brits to the French is laughable. I have watched two road gangs from a private company working for a Tory council breast feed their shovels for over two months widening a short stretch of pavement that no on will ever use. The French would have done it in a week, built a stone wall and planted flowers.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 14th November 2017
quotequote all
There is a debate in parliament about the paradise papers and associated matters this very afternoon

http://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2017/novemb...

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 14th November 2017
quotequote all
Interesting interview with David Marchant, the preeminent 'offshore finance' investigative journalist...

https://sputniknews.com/analysis/20171111105901029...

TLDR;

"Appleby is a significantly more credible law firm than Mossack Fonseca. I would expect Mossack Fonseca to have a plethora of sleazy clients. Panama is a sleazy jurisdiction. Appleby is a credible law firm operating in credible jurisdictions, the Cayman Islands is a first-class financial center, as is Bermuda, as are other centers that Appleby operates in including those in the Channel Islands. I would expect Appleby to have bone fide clients and I think this has proven to be the case.

There is a hierarchy in the offshore world, it's a myth that all offshore centers are the same, they're not, just like major countries are substantially different. The US is materially different to Russia, for example. Bermuda and the Cayman Islands are substantially different to St Vincent and the Grenadines or the Seychelles or Mauritius. "

Alpinestars

13,954 posts

243 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
fblm said:
Alpinestars said:
fblm said:
Alpinestars said:
Whilst I think there is a lack of understanding of havens and tax avoidance, I do think there need to be some rule changes on property held by non residents versus residents. Unlike the likes of Starbucks, Amazon etc, it's hard to see the value that some of the non resident property investors are bringing to the UK, whilst making huge gains and not paying UK tax on those gains like UK resident investors do. Wouldn't surprise me if there is a law change at some point.
It changed in 2015. Since then non residents lost CGT exemption on property. (Eta talking about individuals, no idea about foreign companies)

Edited by fblm on Friday 10th November 13:55
On residential property. Not commercial property. Numerous hedge and real estate funds make huge gains on UK commercial property, and because they are non resident, don't pay CGT.
Interesting thanks. You're right, large untaxed gains on foreign owned commercial property looks like about as open a goal as any chancellor will ever be given. Probably can't bring themselves to set the cost basis at current levels!
Now targeted in the Budget.

EddieSteadyGo

11,725 posts

202 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
Alpinestars said:
fblm said:
Alpinestars said:
fblm said:
Alpinestars said:
Whilst I think there is a lack of understanding of havens and tax avoidance, I do think there need to be some rule changes on property held by non residents versus residents. Unlike the likes of Starbucks, Amazon etc, it's hard to see the value that some of the non resident property investors are bringing to the UK, whilst making huge gains and not paying UK tax on those gains like UK resident investors do. Wouldn't surprise me if there is a law change at some point.
It changed in 2015. Since then non residents lost CGT exemption on property. (Eta talking about individuals, no idea about foreign companies)

Edited by fblm on Friday 10th November 13:55
On residential property. Not commercial property. Numerous hedge and real estate funds make huge gains on UK commercial property, and because they are non resident, don't pay CGT.
Interesting thanks. You're right, large untaxed gains on foreign owned commercial property looks like about as open a goal as any chancellor will ever be given. Probably can't bring themselves to set the cost basis at current levels!
Now targeted in the Budget.
Very interesting collection of quotes there.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
EddieSteadyGo said:
Alpinestars said:
fblm said:
Alpinestars said:
fblm said:
Alpinestars said:
Whilst I think there is a lack of understanding of havens and tax avoidance, I do think there need to be some rule changes on property held by non residents versus residents. Unlike the likes of Starbucks, Amazon etc, it's hard to see the value that some of the non resident property investors are bringing to the UK, whilst making huge gains and not paying UK tax on those gains like UK resident investors do. Wouldn't surprise me if there is a law change at some point.
It changed in 2015. Since then non residents lost CGT exemption on property. (Eta talking about individuals, no idea about foreign companies)

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 10th November 13:55
On residential property. Not commercial property. Numerous hedge and real estate funds make huge gains on UK commercial property, and because they are non resident, don't pay CGT.
Interesting thanks. You're right, large untaxed gains on foreign owned commercial property looks like about as open a goal as any chancellor will ever be given. Probably can't bring themselves to set the cost basis at current levels!
Now targeted in the Budget.
Very interesting collection of quotes there.
Good call Alpinestars!