Hillsborough Inquest
Discussion
Turquoise said:
sirtyro said:
I do feel sorry for those in charge on the day who might now face criminal prosecution. Having to live with the fact that firstly all those people died under your watch and then wait 25 years to find out what might happen next. There are no winners today.
Perhaps you are not aware of the systematic cover up and lies they told. That's the reason it's taken 27 years to get to this point.RobinOakapple said:
Turquoise said:
sirtyro said:
I do feel sorry for those in charge on the day who might now face criminal prosecution. Having to live with the fact that firstly all those people died under your watch and then wait 25 years to find out what might happen next. There are no winners today.
Perhaps you are not aware of the systematic cover up and lies they told. That's the reason it's taken 27 years to get to this point.Edited by Turquoise on Tuesday 26th April 12:30
SilverSpur said:
No-one purposefully and maliciously set out to cause the deaths of any of the 96 that day. May they rest in peace.
The lying and the cover up that followed was truly reprehensible.
I doubt any trials will be forthcoming from this. It would be better in my opinion to lay this to rest, to issue apologises and recompense where needed/deserved, and to take lessons learnt forward.
i wouldn't bank on that plus Duckinfield admitted it was his fault last year at the inquiry for opening the gates. Any cover-up was disgraceful and wrong but I find it hard to judge that deadful day by the standards of today. The outcome lead to the Taylor Report which changed football for the better. Whatever happened on that given day and time must have been terrible and the police simply panicked. I'd like to understand more from the inquiry as to why this happened based on evidence from the day ? The lying and the cover up that followed was truly reprehensible.
I doubt any trials will be forthcoming from this. It would be better in my opinion to lay this to rest, to issue apologises and recompense where needed/deserved, and to take lessons learnt forward.
Lincsblokey said:
If they hadnt lied through there teeth to try and hide the fact they screwed up this would have been decided years ago.
They brought it in themselves. simple as that
They brought it in themselves. simple as that
Turquoise said:
Perhaps you are not aware of the systematic cover up and lies they told. That's the reason it's taken 27 years to get to this point.
The two posts above give the reason a generation has passed with no proper account being made. Inability, then error followed by realisation and fear compounded by lies and finally corruption was the devilish spiral here. A helter-skelter of human failings. One thing that is absolutely to be taken from this (but won't happen) is that the Police in any major event cannot be allowed to investigate themselves ever again. I have advocated for a long time that what should happen is an 'Investigative Jury' of 12 good men and women should be drawn from the registered retired to act as the guiding hand in such events. It's cheap, it's simple and it brings a focus and drive toward the truth.Just extend the Jury idea toward an Investigative one.
Turquoise said:
RobinOakapple said:
Turquoise said:
sirtyro said:
I do feel sorry for those in charge on the day who might now face criminal prosecution. Having to live with the fact that firstly all those people died under your watch and then wait 25 years to find out what might happen next. There are no winners today.
Perhaps you are not aware of the systematic cover up and lies they told. That's the reason it's taken 27 years to get to this point.not really glad, that's just a figure of speech
cb31 said:
NeMiSiS said:
An excellent day for those who have campaigned for justice over these 26/27 years, justice and COMPLETE vindication at last, what an excellent Starter, now let us digest this information and move on to the Main Course.
Compo?Does everything have to boil down to money - juat maybe they want the truth about what happened to be public knowledge and formally accepted as well as for those who were responsible to be held to be responsible.
Turquoise said:
sirtyro said:
I do feel sorry for those in charge on the day who might now face criminal prosecution. Having to live with the fact that firstly all those people died under your watch and then wait 25 years to find out what might happen next. There are no winners today.
Perhaps you are not aware of the systematic cover up and lies they told. That's the reason it's taken 27 years to get to this point.My point was that they didn't intend for anybody to get hurt and making operational decisions (especially back then without the technology & stadium design we have today) when things are moving fast is very difficult. If they have covered up their actions then of course that is wrong. My point was that even though the families now feel justice has been served there are no real winners here and I feel sorry for everybody involved.
Eric Mc said:
surveyor said:
Taking a rare step into NP&E.
While those individuals who sadly died had probably no responsibility for what happened, collectively, as a group football fans had behaved so badly that they were put into cages. Not to excuse the lack of decisions from those in authority etc.
That's my view. They paid the price for a long history of bad behaviour by football fans in the past, by others most likely - and a set of prejudices and assumptions held against them by those authorities who were tasked with controlling them on a regular basis.While those individuals who sadly died had probably no responsibility for what happened, collectively, as a group football fans had behaved so badly that they were put into cages. Not to excuse the lack of decisions from those in authority etc.
It wouldn't have happened at other sporting venues most likely because they wouldn't have been penned in in the same way.
Having said that, other crowd situations at other types of events - such as rock concerts or religious ceremonies - have also caused multiple deaths. And at the bottom of nearly all these tragedies is often poor planning and a bad attitude held by those who are tasked with planning, managing and running the event.
It is for that reason I find it very hard to accept that whilst those in 'control' at the event failed to deal with the situation properly it could be considered that this failure amounted to unlawful killing. I have not seen or heard even a percent of the evidence that the jury has on this but given that it required a majority vote to get that through suggests to me that I am not the only one who feels this.
The lack of any sort of planning for such an eventuality is a different story, as is how things were dealt with from the moment it became obvious to even a TV viewer that there was something seriously wrong happening in that stand.
Edited by Rude-boy on Tuesday 26th April 12:44
markh1973 said:
A response that probably tells us more about you than the families of the 96.
Does everything have to boil down to money - juat maybe they want the truth about what happened to be public knowledge and formally accepted as well as for those who were responsible to be held to be responsible.
Forgive my cynicism, let's see if it was well founded or not over the coming months.Does everything have to boil down to money - juat maybe they want the truth about what happened to be public knowledge and formally accepted as well as for those who were responsible to be held to be responsible.
I think that I think, from what I've read, that the unlawful ruling is justified however to have exonerated the fans is unfair.
I see it as...
Football fans were a nightmare at this point in British history. The Police therefore began to use [in hindsight overly] heavy-handed tactics to "curb" fans' behaviour which culminated in the incident at Hillsborough. The Police realised they had over-reacted and began a cover-up which is, admittedly, unforgiveable.
There was huge pressure on the jury to return an unlawful verdict and to remove any blame from fans.
I think it would be very dangerous territory for manslaughter charges to be brought against any involved.
I see it as...
Football fans were a nightmare at this point in British history. The Police therefore began to use [in hindsight overly] heavy-handed tactics to "curb" fans' behaviour which culminated in the incident at Hillsborough. The Police realised they had over-reacted and began a cover-up which is, admittedly, unforgiveable.
There was huge pressure on the jury to return an unlawful verdict and to remove any blame from fans.
I think it would be very dangerous territory for manslaughter charges to be brought against any involved.
cb31 said:
markh1973 said:
A response that probably tells us more about you than the families of the 96.
Does everything have to boil down to money - juat maybe they want the truth about what happened to be public knowledge and formally accepted as well as for those who were responsible to be held to be responsible.
Forgive my cynicism, let's see if it was well founded or not over the coming months.Does everything have to boil down to money - juat maybe they want the truth about what happened to be public knowledge and formally accepted as well as for those who were responsible to be held to be responsible.
the language is important here.
did any of those supporters expect to die at the match? no, they didn't of course not.
did the behaviour of the police contribute to the deaths of the fans - that now seems to also be agreed as correct and confirmed.
did the police intend for anyone to die that day? of course not. however as they were negligent in their duties AT THE TIME and under the circumstances they are responsible for their actions or inaction.
the question I fear will NEVER be answered is this :- did the police behave in the way they did as a result of the "behaviour" of the supporters? was it deliberate negligence or a an inappropriate reaction to a set of circumstances that caused the deaths of so many people?
like a previous poster no winners today but possibly a Pyrrhic victory
did any of those supporters expect to die at the match? no, they didn't of course not.
did the behaviour of the police contribute to the deaths of the fans - that now seems to also be agreed as correct and confirmed.
did the police intend for anyone to die that day? of course not. however as they were negligent in their duties AT THE TIME and under the circumstances they are responsible for their actions or inaction.
the question I fear will NEVER be answered is this :- did the police behave in the way they did as a result of the "behaviour" of the supporters? was it deliberate negligence or a an inappropriate reaction to a set of circumstances that caused the deaths of so many people?
like a previous poster no winners today but possibly a Pyrrhic victory
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