Can we talk about Brazil for a moment?

[BrassMan]

My Book of Faces has recently critted for over 9000 with reports of a coup in Brazil.

A quick googling seems to say that a (probably) corrupt president has been impeached, the economy is in the bog and the new chap is shutting down everything.

Does anyone know what is really going on there?

[Eric Mc]

Inability to handle political problems in a sensible democratic fashion.

[longblackcoat]

Rather than open up yet another "Can we talk about....?" thread (with further minus points for 'Book Of Faces'), I suggest you have a look at any of the excellent news sources out there.

As BBC is filled with lefty scum, you could probably ignore their output
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-3627...

So I'd recommend The Wall Street Journal
http://www.wsj.com/articles/brazils-rousseff-brazi...

Or maybe Al-Jazeera
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/05/n...


Either way, it's not a coup, but it is a change of power and direction.

[BlackLabel]

So much for the BRICS countries being the next big thing as we were being told not so long ago by super-clever economists.

Brazil's new leader will inherit his countries longest recession since the 1930s, the Russian economy is a mess, and according to the South African finance minister their economy is 'in crisis'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35650701

How are things looking in India and China?

[XM5ER]

BlackLabel said:

So much for the BRICS countries being the next big thing as we were being told not so long ago by super-clever economists.

Brazil's new leader will inherit his countries longest recession since the 1930s, the Russian economy is a mess, and according to the South African finance minister their economy is 'in crisis'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35650701

How are things looking in India and China?

Why are people who take over corner shops surprised when they are unable to buy new stock after spending the previous weeks takings on exciting sports events, huge houses and lovely portraits of themselves?

[Halb]

Future of Western Democracy Being Played Out in Brazil

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/10/09/future-of-we...

[BlackLabel]

Halb said:

Future of Western Democracy Being Played Out in Brazil

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/10/09/future-of-we...

Some of things Jair Bolsonaro, the favourite to win the election, has said over the years would even make Donald Trump blush.

https://www.apnews.com/1f9b79df9b1d4f14aeb1694f0dc...

[BlackLabel]

And Bolsonaro wins the election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-460...

[Justices]

The world has genuinely gone mad.

[colin_p]

Justices said:

The world has genuinely gone mad.

It has and it will continue to happen.

Globally the left needs to raise its game and bin the loonyness.

I know nothing about the politics over there but would suspect the result has something to do with many Brazilians looking at their neigbours in Venezuala and thinking "Do not want!"

[BlackLabel]

The Brazil based left leaning journalist Glenn Greenwald posted this on Twitter:

“When a ruling class fks over enough of the population for a long enough period of time, they're going to burn it down - out of desperation & anger - one way or the other. At some point, democracies are going to need to grapple with that or there will be Bolsonaros everywhere.”

I think he makes an interesting point.

[Murph7355]

BlackLabel said:

The Brazil based left leaning journalist Glenn Greenwald posted this on Twitter:

“When a ruling class fks over enough of the population for a long enough period of time, they're going to burn it down - out of desperation & anger - one way or the other. At some point, democracies are going to need to grapple with that or there will be Bolsonaros everywhere.”

I think he makes an interesting point.

There already are.

The effects of them are tempered somewhat in Europe, but they're here and waiting.

Meanwhile the established parties play their usual games and the emergence of people holding similar views is dismissed.

We live in very interesting times politically.

[colin_p]

BlackLabel said:

The Brazil based left leaning journalist Glenn Greenwald posted this on Twitter:

“When a ruling class fks over enough of the population for a long enough period of time, they're going to burn it down - out of desperation & anger - one way or the other. At some point, democracies are going to need to grapple with that or there will be Bolsonaros everywhere.”

I think he makes an interesting point.

Very interesting and in the case of these elections, the lefties over there must be off the chart loons if they voted that charming man in as the least worse!

[bloomen]

colin_p said:

Very interesting and in the case of these elections, the lefties over there must be off the chart loons if they voted that charming man in as the least worse!

I doubt it's because they're loons, more because they're scum. But it sounds like everyone anywhere near power is scum there regardless of which way they lean.

This is what happens when you deliver nothing of note to the average person.

This fella sounds like a moron offering nursery rhyme solutions to very deep problems, but if everyone before has failed then enough people would be willing to give him a whirl. And they are.

[Mosdef]

bloomen said:

I doubt it's because they're loons, more because they're scum. But it sounds like everyone anywhere near power is scum there regardless of which way they lean.

This is what happens when you deliver nothing of note to the average person.

This fella sounds like a moron offering nursery rhyme solutions to very deep problems, but if everyone before has failed then enough people would be willing to give him a whirl. And they are.

I think that's right; everything has failed and his voters will just hope that something different will be better.

Brazil has been self destructing for decades now. I believe 5 recent presidents have been convicted for corruption and it's fairly shocking that one of those 5 decided to contest the election from his prison cell.

The left wing parties have tried everything to stay in power; buying glasses and false teeth for elderly voters (who also get bused to the local polling stations) are illustrations of how stupid it's been in recent elections. Social spending has been completely out of control with ridiculously generous expenditure in some needless areas, but on the other hand, leaving key public sector servants (teachers, police etc) unpaid for weeks at a time. The pension time bomb in Brazil is probably the scariest one I've ever heard of and it's likely to blow up on Bolsonaro's watch. He also won't separate the highly destructive link between church and state, which has led to huge numbers of unwanted children, abuse at all levels and overflowing orphanages. If you scratch at the surface, it's a very depressing country.

I'm not sure what K&R insurance costs there these days but I bet it's not far behind Venezuela...

Edited by Mosdef on Monday 29th October 13:49

[GM182]

My wife's Brazilian, from Sao Paulo, and almost everyone she knows said they were voting for this deeply unsavoury character as they are st-scared of PT (Labour basically) getting back in.

The corruption there is off the scale, and while all parties are guilty, a big part of it (Google Lava Jato - or Car Wash scandal at Petrobras) happened on PT's watch.

I actually don't think PT were that bad but promising to be tough on crime is a big plus for Bolsonaro as there were an estimated 60,000 murders in Brazil last year. Street crims would shoot you as soon as look at you.

10 years ago we thought about moving there, good lifestyle (apart from traffic) crime wasn't so bad and the economy on the up. I'm very glad we didn't go. The only other Anglo-Brazilian couple we know who did go recently moved back to Europe. It's still a great place to visit but I would never live there...

They need a new constitution and a whole new raft of politicians as almost all of the current MPs are implicated in corruption scandals. Until that happens nothing will change.

It's a cliche, but true, in Brazil to say that Brazil is the country of the future - and always will be...

[Mosdef]

GM182 said:

My wife's Brazilian, from Sao Paulo, and almost everyone she knows said they were voting for this deeply unsavoury character as they are st-scared of PT (Labour basically) getting back in.

The corruption there is off the scale, and while all parties are guilty, a big part of it (Google Lava Jato - or Car Wash scandal at Petrobras) happened on PT's watch.

I actually don't think PT were that bad but promising to be tough on crime is a big plus for Bolsonaro as there were an estimated 60,000 murders in Brazil last year. Street crims would shoot you as soon as look at you.

10 years ago we thought about moving there, good lifestyle (apart from traffic) crime wasn't so bad and the economy on the up. I'm very glad we didn't go. The only other Anglo-Brazilian couple we know who did go recently moved back to Europe. It's still a great place to visit but I would never live there...

They need a new constitution and a whole new raft of politicians as almost all of the current MPs are implicated in corruption scandals. Until that happens nothing will change.

It's a cliche, but true, in Brazil to say that Brazil is the country of the future - and always will be...

Sounds very similar to my situation; my wife is from Rio Grande (Gaucho country) and all of her family still live there. I'm sure some of the stories we hear are urban myths/possibly exaggerated but the general level of violence and kidnappings is beyond terrifying.

You're absolutely right, the country will go nowhere unless they rip up the rule book and start again. I wouldn't readily say this to my in laws but if abortion was permitted (and had been years ago), I suspect the levels of poverty and violent crime would be significantly lower.

Edited by Mosdef on Monday 29th October 15:12

[GM182]

Mosdef said:

I wouldn't readily say this to my in laws but if abortion was permitted (and had been years ago), I suspect the levels of poverty and violent crime would be significantly lower.

Edited by Mosdef on Monday 29th October 15:12

I'm not so sure about this actually. I think the birth rate is surprisingly low and falling. Though the overall population is still rising I believe it is forecast to level off...in fact here we go : https://www.populationpyramid.net/brazil/2050/

I reckon it is more down to the lack of education and the political system being so open to corruption and patronage. I mean Brazil is bigger than Australia in land area and most of it is fertile, not desert, plus the south is heavily industrialised. They really should be doing better.

[Mosdef]

The south is more industrialised than the rest of the country but the highly protectionist nature, as determined by the government has held it back. The nature of the industries, even in the south, is incredibly basic and rather than being open to FDI, any kind of development has been largely repelled, to the detriment of the population’s quality of life. I’m always shocked by the quality of things like hospital equipment in Brazil, even relative to its neighbours. Countries like Paraguay and Columbia put Brazil to absolute shame.

I’m sure you’ve heard Brazilians saying how their government prevents educational development, just so they can stay in control of their population. I think it goes further than that and they keep their economy in the gutter too.

The whole place is a shambles and it needn’t be.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

South America innit. Basket case. Corruption is endemic. You can't get tossed off without greasing someone's palms.