Discussion
The link man / host lost control and became far to involved in the discussion. All he needed to do was guide the discussion for his two guests, he will be getting a dressing down from his boss.
OJ 's fellow guest decided she wanted to force her POV, along with the link man at the same time, shouting OJ down. No wonder the fella decided he was wasting his time with the pair of them.
Of course his not the first, nor will he the the last to walk off a live show, defence minister (Tory) and the pop group(Bee gees) spring to mind.
I enjoy listening to OJ as a counter to all the beige political claptrap so often aired. Agree or not at least he has a 'go' and is passionate.
OJ 's fellow guest decided she wanted to force her POV, along with the link man at the same time, shouting OJ down. No wonder the fella decided he was wasting his time with the pair of them.
Of course his not the first, nor will he the the last to walk off a live show, defence minister (Tory) and the pop group(Bee gees) spring to mind.
I enjoy listening to OJ as a counter to all the beige political claptrap so often aired. Agree or not at least he has a 'go' and is passionate.
vetrof said:
That´s how I saw it.
Call them out on what? Julia Hartley-Brewer calling it a homophobic attack no less than four times? Longhurst agreeing with her?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/the-orl...
Owen Jones was evidently emotional, and this combined with his generally petulant nature saw to it that his appearance descended into farce. That doesn't excuse his continued defence of the indefensible in the Guardian on Monday, though.
As for Diane Abbot's efforts in support of Owen Jones - where to begin? You'd think that statistically speaking she'd make sense at some point - alas, no.
Edited by iphonedyou on Tuesday 14th June 10:59
iphonedyou said:
Call them out on what? Julia Hartley-Brewer calling it a homophobic attack no less than four times? Longhurst agreeing with her?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/the-orl...
That's a good response to the backlash she's got, OJ's article was just like his appearance on Sky News, all about himself. She's bang on about how people just seem to take offence with anything they don't appear to agree with too.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/the-orl...
"but you arent gay, you wont understand" was the sentiment he seemed to be trying to peddle.
Er, it doesn't take a genius and attraction to the same sex to see the horror in this, like any other attack of its ilk, I can understand it is perhaps closer to home but nobody is 100 percent safe.
Er, it doesn't take a genius and attraction to the same sex to see the horror in this, like any other attack of its ilk, I can understand it is perhaps closer to home but nobody is 100 percent safe.
I was sort of with the SKY guy.
Clearly these tough IS guys look for soft targets, they would not attack a NRA convention - if only they would. So it seems pretty clear they are going to chose Synagogues, schools, open air events, concerts and discos. There are likely to be gay people in all those locations.
Perhaps even more than being homophobic, is that probability that he was mentally unstable. He seemed to hate everyone.
Clearly these tough IS guys look for soft targets, they would not attack a NRA convention - if only they would. So it seems pretty clear they are going to chose Synagogues, schools, open air events, concerts and discos. There are likely to be gay people in all those locations.
Perhaps even more than being homophobic, is that probability that he was mentally unstable. He seemed to hate everyone.
iphonedyou said:
Call them out on what? Julia Hartley-Brewer calling it a homophobic attack no less than four times? Longhurst agreeing with her?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/the-orl...
Excellent response.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/the-orl...
If you're not gay, you need to think hard to understand.
Gay bars have always been considered safe spaces for LGBT people. We have our own stratifications, and sub-groups, fuelled by own human ignorances, but at the end of the day whoever you were, you could feel safe in a gay bar.
In Orlando, as in Old Compton Street in 1999, that safe space was attacked.
It reminded every gay person who has had to endure the homophobic "banter", staring and comments in the street, verbal and physical assults, that even our safe spaces are not safe.
That those who hate us to the point of murder can get us anywhere.
Yes this was an attack on human beings, on western culture of nightclubs. But that it was a deliberate attack targetted at LGBT people trumps those things.
The reaction of the Sky News presenter and his panellist was salt in the wound. They might as well have said "well I just wish they wouldn't rub it in my face". Be gay if you must, but hide it in the closet.
I can see how to straight eyes, this looks no different to say, the Bali bombing. Islamic extremists targeting western style nightclub. It's the same way straight people don't understand what it is like to grow up gay, to resolve that conflict between what you feel and what society tells you that you should be feeling, to be asked "when did you choose to be gay?", to constantly be on the alert for danger in public, to wonder if your safe to show your lover the slightest bit of affection in public.
Owen Jones was right to walk out. They had no intention of letting him even suggest this was primarily an attack on LGBT people; and certainly didn't want to give him the opportunity to explain why.
Gay bars have always been considered safe spaces for LGBT people. We have our own stratifications, and sub-groups, fuelled by own human ignorances, but at the end of the day whoever you were, you could feel safe in a gay bar.
In Orlando, as in Old Compton Street in 1999, that safe space was attacked.
It reminded every gay person who has had to endure the homophobic "banter", staring and comments in the street, verbal and physical assults, that even our safe spaces are not safe.
That those who hate us to the point of murder can get us anywhere.
Yes this was an attack on human beings, on western culture of nightclubs. But that it was a deliberate attack targetted at LGBT people trumps those things.
The reaction of the Sky News presenter and his panellist was salt in the wound. They might as well have said "well I just wish they wouldn't rub it in my face". Be gay if you must, but hide it in the closet.
I can see how to straight eyes, this looks no different to say, the Bali bombing. Islamic extremists targeting western style nightclub. It's the same way straight people don't understand what it is like to grow up gay, to resolve that conflict between what you feel and what society tells you that you should be feeling, to be asked "when did you choose to be gay?", to constantly be on the alert for danger in public, to wonder if your safe to show your lover the slightest bit of affection in public.
Owen Jones was right to walk out. They had no intention of letting him even suggest this was primarily an attack on LGBT people; and certainly didn't want to give him the opportunity to explain why.
esxste said:
If you're not gay, you need to think hard to understand.
Gay bars have always been considered safe spaces for LGBT people. We have our own stratifications, and sub-groups, fuelled by own human ignorances, but at the end of the day whoever you were, you could feel safe in a gay bar.
In Orlando, as in Old Compton Street in 1999, that safe space was attacked.
It reminded every gay person who has had to endure the homophobic "banter", staring and comments in the street, verbal and physical assults, that even our safe spaces are not safe.
That those who hate us to the point of murder can get us anywhere.
Yes this was an attack on human beings, on western culture of nightclubs. But that it was a deliberate attack targetted at LGBT people trumps those things.
The reaction of the Sky News presenter and his panellist was salt in the wound. They might as well have said "well I just wish they wouldn't rub it in my face". Be gay if you must, but hide it in the closet.
I can see how to straight eyes, this looks no different to say, the Bali bombing. Islamic extremists targeting western style nightclub. It's the same way straight people don't understand what it is like to grow up gay, to resolve that conflict between what you feel and what society tells you that you should be feeling, to be asked "when did you choose to be gay?", to constantly be on the alert for danger in public, to wonder if your safe to show your lover the slightest bit of affection in public.
Owen Jones was right to walk out. They had no intention of letting him even suggest this was primarily an attack on LGBT people; and certainly didn't want to give him the opportunity to explain why.
I can only assume you haven't actually watched the clip.Gay bars have always been considered safe spaces for LGBT people. We have our own stratifications, and sub-groups, fuelled by own human ignorances, but at the end of the day whoever you were, you could feel safe in a gay bar.
In Orlando, as in Old Compton Street in 1999, that safe space was attacked.
It reminded every gay person who has had to endure the homophobic "banter", staring and comments in the street, verbal and physical assults, that even our safe spaces are not safe.
That those who hate us to the point of murder can get us anywhere.
Yes this was an attack on human beings, on western culture of nightclubs. But that it was a deliberate attack targetted at LGBT people trumps those things.
The reaction of the Sky News presenter and his panellist was salt in the wound. They might as well have said "well I just wish they wouldn't rub it in my face". Be gay if you must, but hide it in the closet.
I can see how to straight eyes, this looks no different to say, the Bali bombing. Islamic extremists targeting western style nightclub. It's the same way straight people don't understand what it is like to grow up gay, to resolve that conflict between what you feel and what society tells you that you should be feeling, to be asked "when did you choose to be gay?", to constantly be on the alert for danger in public, to wonder if your safe to show your lover the slightest bit of affection in public.
Owen Jones was right to walk out. They had no intention of letting him even suggest this was primarily an attack on LGBT people; and certainly didn't want to give him the opportunity to explain why.
esxste said:
If you're not gay, you need to think hard to understand.
Gay bars have always been considered safe spaces for LGBT people. We have our own stratifications, and sub-groups, fuelled by own human ignorances, but at the end of the day whoever you were, you could feel safe in a gay bar.
In Orlando, as in Old Compton Street in 1999, that safe space was attacked.
It reminded every gay person who has had to endure the homophobic "banter", staring and comments in the street, verbal and physical assults, that even our safe spaces are not safe.
That those who hate us to the point of murder can get us anywhere.
Yes this was an attack on human beings, on western culture of nightclubs. But that it was a deliberate attack targetted at LGBT people trumps those things.
The reaction of the Sky News presenter and his panellist was salt in the wound. They might as well have said "well I just wish they wouldn't rub it in my face". Be gay if you must, but hide it in the closet.
I can see how to straight eyes, this looks no different to say, the Bali bombing. Islamic extremists targeting western style nightclub. It's the same way straight people don't understand what it is like to grow up gay, to resolve that conflict between what you feel and what society tells you that you should be feeling, to be asked "when did you choose to be gay?", to constantly be on the alert for danger in public, to wonder if your safe to show your lover the slightest bit of affection in public.
Owen Jones was right to walk out. They had no intention of letting him even suggest this was primarily an attack on LGBT people; and certainly didn't want to give him the opportunity to explain why.
Very well put; if only Jones had been so eloquent.Gay bars have always been considered safe spaces for LGBT people. We have our own stratifications, and sub-groups, fuelled by own human ignorances, but at the end of the day whoever you were, you could feel safe in a gay bar.
In Orlando, as in Old Compton Street in 1999, that safe space was attacked.
It reminded every gay person who has had to endure the homophobic "banter", staring and comments in the street, verbal and physical assults, that even our safe spaces are not safe.
That those who hate us to the point of murder can get us anywhere.
Yes this was an attack on human beings, on western culture of nightclubs. But that it was a deliberate attack targetted at LGBT people trumps those things.
The reaction of the Sky News presenter and his panellist was salt in the wound. They might as well have said "well I just wish they wouldn't rub it in my face". Be gay if you must, but hide it in the closet.
I can see how to straight eyes, this looks no different to say, the Bali bombing. Islamic extremists targeting western style nightclub. It's the same way straight people don't understand what it is like to grow up gay, to resolve that conflict between what you feel and what society tells you that you should be feeling, to be asked "when did you choose to be gay?", to constantly be on the alert for danger in public, to wonder if your safe to show your lover the slightest bit of affection in public.
Owen Jones was right to walk out. They had no intention of letting him even suggest this was primarily an attack on LGBT people; and certainly didn't want to give him the opportunity to explain why.
Instead he's made it all about him which is a shame because there's an understanding defecit in straight circles about why this is such a big deal to LGBT people and also a wider debate to be had over so many aspects of this atrocity which to be fair to the other two was, I think what they were trying to say.
esxste said:
If you're not gay, you need to think hard to understand.
Gay bars have always been considered safe spaces for LGBT people. We have our own stratifications, and sub-groups, fuelled by own human ignorances, but at the end of the day whoever you were, you could feel safe in a gay bar.
In Orlando, as in Old Compton Street in 1999, that safe space was attacked.
It reminded every gay person who has had to endure the homophobic "banter", staring and comments in the street, verbal and physical assults, that even our safe spaces are not safe.
That those who hate us to the point of murder can get us anywhere.
Yes this was an attack on human beings, on western culture of nightclubs. But that it was a deliberate attack targetted at LGBT people trumps those things.
The reaction of the Sky News presenter and his panellist was salt in the wound. They might as well have said "well I just wish they wouldn't rub it in my face". Be gay if you must, but hide it in the closet.
I can see how to straight eyes, this looks no different to say, the Bali bombing. Islamic extremists targeting western style nightclub. It's the same way straight people don't understand what it is like to grow up gay, to resolve that conflict between what you feel and what society tells you that you should be feeling, to be asked "when did you choose to be gay?", to constantly be on the alert for danger in public, to wonder if your safe to show your lover the slightest bit of affection in public.
Owen Jones was right to walk out. They had no intention of letting him even suggest this was primarily an attack on LGBT people; and certainly didn't want to give him the opportunity to explain why.
you could argue that an attack in/on a synagogue would be thought of in the same way - but I'd also put that as an attack on humanity first and an attack on Jewishness second. The fact is that the overriding issue here is that it is an attack on humanity and human rights - all else is secondary. It is quite possible, likely even, that straight people could have been caught up in this attack - did the gun-man separate out gay people from straight or did he just shoot away? The same could be said for the poor souls in Paris at the gig and so it goes onGay bars have always been considered safe spaces for LGBT people. We have our own stratifications, and sub-groups, fuelled by own human ignorances, but at the end of the day whoever you were, you could feel safe in a gay bar.
In Orlando, as in Old Compton Street in 1999, that safe space was attacked.
It reminded every gay person who has had to endure the homophobic "banter", staring and comments in the street, verbal and physical assults, that even our safe spaces are not safe.
That those who hate us to the point of murder can get us anywhere.
Yes this was an attack on human beings, on western culture of nightclubs. But that it was a deliberate attack targetted at LGBT people trumps those things.
The reaction of the Sky News presenter and his panellist was salt in the wound. They might as well have said "well I just wish they wouldn't rub it in my face". Be gay if you must, but hide it in the closet.
I can see how to straight eyes, this looks no different to say, the Bali bombing. Islamic extremists targeting western style nightclub. It's the same way straight people don't understand what it is like to grow up gay, to resolve that conflict between what you feel and what society tells you that you should be feeling, to be asked "when did you choose to be gay?", to constantly be on the alert for danger in public, to wonder if your safe to show your lover the slightest bit of affection in public.
Owen Jones was right to walk out. They had no intention of letting him even suggest this was primarily an attack on LGBT people; and certainly didn't want to give him the opportunity to explain why.
irocfan said:
you could argue that an attack in/on a synagogue would be thought of in the same way - but I'd also put that as an attack on humanity first and an attack on Jewishness second. The fact is that the overriding issue here is that it is an attack on humanity and human rights - all else is secondary. It is quite possible, likely even, that straight people could have been caught up in this attack - did the gun-man separate out gay people from straight or did he just shoot away? The same could be said for the poor souls in Paris at the gig and so it goes on
Would the media report it as an attack on human rights first, or as an anti-semetic attack? In America itself, LGBT rights are under constant attack by the Christian Right. A fair number of US states do not prohibit discrimination against LGBT people.
So when an attack happens on LGBT people in that climate, you might want to understand why we don't necessarily feel it was targetted at humanity and human rights.
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