Owen Jones

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Discussion

kev1974

4,029 posts

128 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
He's certainly milking it for all it's worth.

Perhaps he should retire from the public eye for a bit, let's hope.

Evanivitch

19,802 posts

121 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
S1KRR said:
And yet, he doesn't link to it, or screenshot it or report it. Which is odd given he would do that against a political opponent
That wouldn't really be constructive to a successful prosecution would it?

Escapegoat

5,135 posts

134 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
jsc15 said:
Only if you assume without any question that...
A) There is a victim
B) OJ was the victim

A healthy dose of cynicism is, sadly, necessary these days, especially when the apparent crime fits so very neatly into the apparent victim's existing political outlook. There are numerous examples of people staging their own "hate crimes". This does NOT mean this is definitely one of them, but if you always accept these as 100% true without any challenge, then the Jussie Smollets of the world have carte blanche to have anyone crucified by the courts/media that they don't like.
What proportion of hate crimes are staged? Presumably you have evidence that it is more than 50%, since your default position is to disbelieve the victims; can you share that evidence?

(People like you were saying the exact same thing on PH about the two lesbians attacked on a London bus just a few months ago.)

Evanivitch

19,802 posts

121 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
Escapegoat said:
jsc15 said:
Only if you assume without any question that...
A) There is a victim
B) OJ was the victim

A healthy dose of cynicism is, sadly, necessary these days, especially when the apparent crime fits so very neatly into the apparent victim's existing political outlook. There are numerous examples of people staging their own "hate crimes". This does NOT mean this is definitely one of them, but if you always accept these as 100% true without any challenge, then the Jussie Smollets of the world have carte blanche to have anyone crucified by the courts/media that they don't like.
What proportion of hate crimes are staged? Presumably you have evidence that it is more than 50%, since your default position is to disbelieve the victims; can you share that evidence?

(People like you were saying the exact same thing on PH about the two lesbians attacked on a London bus just a few months ago.)
He's using his sample of n=1 to claim numerous examples. It's a great position to base an argument.

jsc15

981 posts

207 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
Escapegoat said:
jsc15 said:
Only if you assume without any question that...
A) There is a victim
B) OJ was the victim

A healthy dose of cynicism is, sadly, necessary these days, especially when the apparent crime fits so very neatly into the apparent victim's existing political outlook. There are numerous examples of people staging their own "hate crimes". This does NOT mean this is definitely one of them, but if you always accept these as 100% true without any challenge, then the Jussie Smollets of the world have carte blanche to have anyone crucified by the courts/media that they don't like.
What proportion of hate crimes are staged? Presumably you have evidence that it is more than 50%, since your default position is to disbelieve the victims; can you share that evidence?

(People like you were saying the exact same thing on PH about the two lesbians attacked on a London bus just a few months ago.)
He's using his sample of n=1 to claim numerous examples. It's a great position to base an argument.
"Numerous examples" does not need to be >50%, and my default position is NOT to disbelieve victims. There are many genuine victims out there, but they don't need supported by an arbitrary percentage. However I am challenging the narrative that everyone who claims they are a victim should automatically be put on a pedestal and believed 100% without any query allowed as to their motive. If the proportion of faked hate crimes is 49%, 10%, or 0.1%....they still are faked hate crimes. What some people also ignore is that a genuine hate crime can affect 1 person or a few people directly, but a faked hate crime can impact on entire genders, races, towns, cities, universities etc etc, as the whole group gets tarred by the same brush in the media's quest to believe the "victim/s". If (IF) Owen's incident turns out to be faked or twisted to suit his narrative, he will have in the meantime underpinned his "far-right" hysteria with his obedient supporters, who 100% believe the prosecution, but overlook the defence, and totally ignore the proof of innocence.

You asked for examples of fake hate crimes, and just from memory here's some from the news over last few years....
- Jussie Smollet - would be 1 "victim" but fallout was Trump and most MAGA/white people in Chicago having finger pointed at them
- When a few "racist" messages were left on restaurant receipts in US, at least 2 were proven to be written by the "victim"
- Canadian teenage girl having hijab ripped off - proven to be self inflicted
- Rolling Stone University rape campus article - "victim" was believed 100% and a substantial article written in magazine, people were suspended, careers ruined, Uni's name ruined, then story was later proven to be fiction
- Girl in France getting a swastika cut into her face, later proven to be self-inflicted
- On the day of the Scottish Indy Referendum in 2014, there were panicked reports on Facebook/Twitter of "Yes" supporters getting beaten up and stabbed in Glasgow. Cue mass hysteria and "solidarity" and "the Tories caused this hate" etc etc. Turned out to be, you guessed it, complete fiction
- Recent example of a UK lass claiming rape in Cyprus, some innocent Israeli teenagers get hauled in front of court, turns out she likes getting fired into more than a World War 1 sandbag
- US students in MAGA hats abusing and smirking at Native American....US media in uproar, kid's names/addresses published, kids threatened.....Nope, turned out the kids were actually on the receiving end of the aggro
- Z-lister on (I think) Big Brother(?) last year, claiming assault by another contestant who was then getting booted out before her history of similar BS was noted

and don't get me started on the hate mail David Lammy receives, in handwriting nearly identical to his own

Do these add up to 100%? No
Do they add up to 0%? No

(and I actually did believe the 2 women on the bus)




Edited by jsc15 on Monday 19th August 00:47


Edited by jsc15 on Monday 19th August 00:50

andy_s

19,397 posts

258 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
Escapegoat said:
(People like you were saying the exact same thing on PH about the two lesbians attacked on a London bus just a few months ago.)
That's a low jab - 'exact same thing' - what, that it didn't happen? I don't think anyone said that did they? I mean, there was a picture, arrests and everything.

Catweazle

1,125 posts

141 months

Monday 19th August 2019
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Police say:

‘Although Mr Jones only sustained minor injuries to his back, arm and head, Det Sgt Barefoot said: "The effects of becoming a victim of such an attack can continue when any injuries have healed."’

That explains why his injuries are so light.

biggbn

22,818 posts

219 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
andy_s said:
Escapegoat said:
(People like you were saying the exact same thing on PH about the two lesbians attacked on a London bus just a few months ago.)
That's a low jab - 'exact same thing' - what, that it didn't happen? I don't think anyone said that did they? I mean, there was a picture, arrests and everything.
Go back and read that thread. Many suggested the women had brought it on themselves by being agitators.

alfaman

6,416 posts

233 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
Interesting how the Police and media are all over this ...

In total contrast my nephew and friends were beaten up (more seriously, needing overnight in hospital) last year in east London.

... was a race hate attack (by gang of Islamic thugs).

Police stated there would be no follow up specifically because they were white, if the reverse they would have taken action.

Police also confirmed attacks by Islamic gangs were common in the area.

Perhaps the Police only get involved if the victim is from XYZ ‘minority’ to avoid accusations of institutionalised racism etc ? Rather than anything to do with the seriousness of the assault / crime (?)

biggbn

22,818 posts

219 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
alfaman said:
Interesting how the Police and media are all over this ...

In total contrast my nephew and friends were beaten up (more seriously, needing overnight in hospital) last year in east London.

... was a race hate attack (by gang of Islamic thugs).

Police stated there would be no follow up specifically because they were white, if the reverse they would have taken action.

Police also confirmed attacks by Islamic gangs were common in the area.

Perhaps the Police only get involved if the victim is from XYZ ‘minority’ to avoid accusations of institutionalised racism etc ? Rather than anything to do with the seriousness of the assault / crime (?)
That needs taken up with police complaints immediately, officers names and numbers should have been taken at time. The law should not recognise colour or religion it must be impartial and evenly applied.

alfaman

6,416 posts

233 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
biggbn said:
alfaman said:
Interesting how the Police and media are all over this ...

In total contrast my nephew and friends were beaten up (more seriously, needing overnight in hospital) last year in east London.

... was a race hate attack (by gang of Islamic thugs).

Police stated there would be no follow up specifically because they were white, if the reverse they would have taken action.

Police also confirmed attacks by Islamic gangs were common in the area.

Perhaps the Police only get involved if the victim is from XYZ ‘minority’ to avoid accusations of institutionalised racism etc ? Rather than anything to do with the seriousness of the assault / crime (?)
That needs taken up with police complaints immediately, officers names and numbers should have been taken at time. The law should not recognise colour or religion it must be impartial and evenly applied.
I suggested to my nephew he did that / and go to the press .. but he didn’t want to cause trouble.

The paramedics said similar incidents were not uncommon ... the the Police don’t seem to want to cause offence with the local ‘community’

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
He’s a little turd and I’m failing to find any sympathy for him.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
I reckon Julia Hartley-Brewer is behind it. She may not have delivered the thoroughly viscous and prolonged beating itself.
But this has her stamp all over it. She is typical of the right wing factions that are heavily installed in the media.
She has past form for being utterly beastly towards him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ITdjAb3VcE

andy_s

19,397 posts

258 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
biggbn said:
andy_s said:
Escapegoat said:
(People like you were saying the exact same thing on PH about the two lesbians attacked on a London bus just a few months ago.)
That's a low jab - 'exact same thing' - what, that it didn't happen? I don't think anyone said that did they? I mean, there was a picture, arrests and everything.
Go back and read that thread. Many suggested the women had brought it on themselves by being agitators.
From what I remember there was some discussion as to whether they were targeted because they were lesbian or whether they were attacked because they wouldn't 'perform'; and the implication for whether it was strictly a 'hate' crime per se.
I don't remember anyone saying they were agitators but I'll take your word for it.

Is anyone saying Owen was 'agitating'? For me 'exact same thing' was interpreted as 'it didn't happen'.

Ratski83

952 posts

72 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
andy_s said:
biggbn said:
andy_s said:
Escapegoat said:
(People like you were saying the exact same thing on PH about the two lesbians attacked on a London bus just a few months ago.)
That's a low jab - 'exact same thing' - what, that it didn't happen? I don't think anyone said that did they? I mean, there was a picture, arrests and everything.
Go back and read that thread. Many suggested the women had brought it on themselves by being agitators.
From what I remember there was some discussion as to whether they were targeted because they were lesbian or whether they were attacked because they wouldn't 'perform'; and the implication for whether it was strictly a 'hate' crime per se.
I don't remember anyone saying they were agitators but I'll take your word for it.

Is anyone saying Owen was 'agitating'? For me 'exact same thing' was interpreted as 'it didn't happen'.
The lesbian girls on the bus also blamed their attack on the rise of right wing populism.

They just refused to provide any descriptions of those who attacked them.

Set the narrative and then hide the detail which might disprove that narrative seems to be a recurring theme in these so called ‘hate crimes’.

bitchstewie

50,781 posts

209 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
This thread is really confusing.

You have grown men who get seriously butthurt at being called names like "gammon" yet seem to be suggesting that being beaten up because you're annoying is basically OK as he either deserved it or is milking it or making it up and he should just get over it and maybe lay low for a bit confused

768

13,601 posts

95 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
I saw a parallel with gammon too.

You have people using an insult which overtly references a skin colour protesting that it's not racist and also taking someone explicitly saying they condemn an action as not condemning it.

It's like opposite world in here sometimes.

Gameface

16,565 posts

76 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
S1KRR said:
https://twitter.com/JennieBujold/status/1163041060...

For someone who was kicked in the head less than 24 hours ago, he don't half heal quickly...
She is fking mental.

Paul Dishman

4,676 posts

236 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
Jones has just been on the Today programme blaming Brexit, Donald Trump, Tommy Robinson, followers of Anders Brevik, Brexit supporters, Boris Johnson and Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all for his attack

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Monday 19th August 2019
quotequote all
I just heard that. Whatever sympathy one has for someone who has been physically assaulted, he certainly knows how to go about losing any such sympathy.

In general terms, I do think he has a point about the rise of the radical, angry and dangerous right - but he just goes about it the wrong way. The academic who was also interviewed was for more rational.