Lib Dems: Making a great comeback?

[glazbagun]

They should wheel out Clegg. Make him leader and explicitly state that he will ignore the referendum vote. He should write the pledge on the back of the card he held for his tuition fees pledge and ask for a chance to redeem himself.

He still probably won't win, but he'd probably get the party its seats back.

[anonymous-user]

S10GTA said:

Can't see a Lib Dem thread on here, but have noticed they've been claiming they have pledged a British return to EU in next general election (or stop us leaving if an election before A50) http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/li...

A great vote winner imho.

Also #mysticclegg has been trending after he wrote this before the referendum https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote...

Is this the start of them regaining some traction in the political world?

Short answer: No
Longer answer : No they are f*cked

[JagLover]

footnote said:

Immigration is not going to be solved by leaving - now admitted by all sides involved.

Admitted by who on the leave side?

[footnote]

JagLover said:

footnote said:

Immigration is not going to be solved by leaving - now admitted by all sides involved.

Admitted by who on the leave side?

Off the top of my head, Daniel Hannan - stated on a number of occasions now. There's an Evan Davis Newsnight interview for one doing the rounds - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

[footnote]

Derek Smith said:

The libdems have just got a boost, I think. Corbyn has suffered a vote of no confidence, 176 to 44 (numbers vary), but has stated that he will not resign. He has no cabinet.

This means that there will be many disillusioned voters. I've voted labour in the past but can't see me doing so in the future with Corbyn in charge.

The libdems could become the main opposition. If the tories move to the right - very possible - the middle left will be a catholic place to be.

The main question is what will the MPs who voted against him do? They could just leave it of course, the GE is a long time coming. There is a lot of news around at the moment and this is a technical matter to most.

We need a strong opposition. We need an opposition that reflects alternative views. I'd prefer it to be the libdems.

Sums up the way a lot of people will feel.

[crankedup]

footnote said:

crankedup said:

JagLover said:

crankedup said:

A second referendum is not the will of the people, OK sure some remainders have voiced an opinion but that is all. It is not amounting to anything of significance.
I was not impressed.with my local election results, can we have a re-run please. At what point do we discard democracy?

When it goes against the views of the establishment.

Indeed.

On what do you base an assertion that a second referendum is not the 'will of the people'?

For that matter, when did the holding of the first referendum become the 'will of the people'?

None of the main political parties wanted it. All campaigned to remain.

It's accepted that a 52:48 result for Remain would have resulted in demands for a second referendum - which would probably happen - that's what happens with close results in referendums.

I wouldn't accept a comamparison between the referendum and the local election results - people generally can predict the consequences of any result in an election but the consequences of the referendum were unknown and obscured by bias and vitriol on all sides.

We'd probably never agree on this. Fair enough. If it had come out the other way I wouldn't expect the Leavers to give up either.

I watched Tim Farron on the news at lunchtime. I've never voted LibDem before but he seems sensible enough and he's sharp enough to seize the moment.

I've voted labour previously but there's too much militant tendency going on there at the moment - they've yet to hit bottom.

I couldn't in all conscience vote Tory and anyway, they'll genuinely never be united behind Leave or Remain - the cracks in belief are whacking great chasms now - and visible for all to see. Any unity is more pretence than ever. I think they've yet to hit bottom too.

LibDems have been in coalition recently. They've got the infrastructure and experience.
Sure, they fked up - but so have Labour and Tory and they're still doing it now.

I'll give the Lib Dems a go because they're not confused about what they want and what they stand for.

I haven' seen or heard of any significant number of the population asking for a second referendum, and I have followed the debates very closely over the past week. The only segment of the population asking for a second referendum appear to be some disgruntled 'remain' voters who are unable to accept that the democratic vote has reveLed a majority wishing to leave the EU. Also the small matter of the Government stance that 'the people have spoken and given us the mandate to leave the EU

The referendum, offered to the people by the then PM was for the people to decide and settle a very long established divide between those that considered the EU to be good for the UK, and those that held an opposite opinion.

[footnote]

crankedup said:

I haven' seen or heard of any significant number of the population asking for a second referendum, and I have followed the debates very closely over the past week. The only segment of the population asking for a second referendum appear to be some disgruntled 'remain' voters who are unable to accept that the democratic vote has reveLed a majority wishing to leave the EU. Also the small matter of the Government stance that 'the people have spoken and given us the mandate to leave the EU

The referendum, offered to the people by the then PM was for the people to decide and settle a very long established divide between those that considered the EU to be good for the UK, and those that held an opposite opinion.

I'll not insult you by asking if you haven't heard about the 2nd referendum petition.
I'll take it as a given that you know about it but are discounting it for whatever reasons of your own.
But, however valid those reasons are, it still bears mentioning that the petition is approaching 4million despite having had hundreds of thousands knocked off for suspected fraud.

In the last few days, and I'm sure I haven't followed the debates as closely as some, but in terms of politicians or opinion shapers, I can think of David Lammy, Richard Branson, Tim Farron and today Jeremy Hunt. These are of course, the ones who can command media attention for their thoughts.

There's enough media coverage of the subject to suggest that the reality of Brexit has left many 'leavers' questioning whether their decisions may have been rash.

And while you can make the case that, regret it or not, that's democracy - my feeling is that just because someone swears on their kids' lives, if they then turn out to be lying, I wouldn't expect to take their kids' lives - on a point of principle.

I think the world has changed from a time when people would have literally eaten their hats.

There was something in the FT today - an opinion piece I think but I don't have it to hand - about whether it was preferable to suffer the embarrassment/humiliation of not leaving the EU or forcing ourselves to go ahead and leave the EU and suffer the consequences, now that we're a bit more knowledgeable in economic terms.

They came down on taking the blushing cheeks, which would be my choice too.

I would add if the referendum was intended in any way to settle any dispute between leavers and remainers - it has failed spectacularly.

[Derek Smith]

don4l said:

Now you are just making stuff up.

Many countries that have not implemented the EU Water Management directive are perfectly able to trade with the EU.

If we want to sell products into Europe, those products will have to comply with local standards - just as we do at present.

What is it with you and water management?

I see otherwise we are on the same level: 'just as we do at present.' My point.

[Blue62]

crankedup said:

It's perfectly reasonable for a political party to say we want to stay in the EU and will campaign for it, just as it was for UKIP to take it's seats in Brussels and oppose. Pretty much half the country wants to stay in, without going back over old ground, a decision such as this should have required far more than 50.01% of the vote to get through, there is simply too much at stake and Leave know it, which is why they are back peddling. You get on with your embarrassment and vote with your feet.
[/quote

Your upset aren't you.
When you have cleared your head of anger at losing out what you expected and wanted perhaps then you can digest the implications of exactly what democracy means.
As for back peddling, I don't know what you mean. I am very relaxed regarding the Countries decision and see great opportunities for the future of my grandchild.

I'm surprised that you are a long standing LD, looking at your posts it seems there's a bit of a disconnect between you and the party. You are right, I am upset about the referendum but the point is about the right of a political party to stand on an issue, I think that's where democracy kicks in. A further point is that people are entitled to change their minds and now that we have the benefit of hindsight, we might make a more informed decision. Judging by your grammar I would guess that you are far from relaxed, or maybe you just conform to the Leaver stereotype of uneducated.

[Robertj21a]

footnote said:

I'll not insult you by asking if you haven't heard about the 2nd referendum petition.
I'll take it as a given that you know about it but are discounting it for whatever reasons of your own.
But, however valid those reasons are, it still bears mentioning that the petition is approaching 4million despite having had hundreds of thousands knocked off for suspected fraud.

In the last few days, and I'm sure I haven't followed the debates as closely as some, but in terms of politicians or opinion shapers, I can think of David Lammy, Richard Branson, Tim Farron and today Jeremy Hunt. These are of course, the ones who can command media attention for their thoughts.

There's enough media coverage of the subject to suggest that the reality of Brexit has left many 'leavers' questioning whether their decisions may have been rash.

And while you can make the case that, regret it or not, that's democracy - my feeling is that just because someone swears on their kids' lives, if they then turn out to be lying, I wouldn't expect to take their kids' lives - on a point of principle.

I think the world has changed from a time when people would have literally eaten their hats.

There was something in the FT today - an opinion piece I think but I don't have it to hand - about whether it was preferable to suffer the embarrassment/humiliation of not leaving the EU or forcing ourselves to go ahead and leave the EU and suffer the consequences, now that we're a bit more knowledgeable in economic terms.

They came down on taking the blushing cheeks, which would be my choice too.

I would add if the referendum was intended in any way to settle any dispute between leavers and remainers - it has failed spectacularly.

Sorry, but for all your many words I think I can sum up your view as 'Democracy is great (but only when I agree with the result)'.

There won't be a 2nd referendum. Like it or not, we should now move on.

[otherman]

glazbagun said:

He should write the pledge on the back of the card he held for his tuition fees pledge and ask for a chance to redeem himself.

It wasn't a pledge. It was one of a hundred manifesto proposals. Never in the history of british politics has any party followed through on all its manifesto. Difficulty for the libs was that they didn't anticipate how many people would vote for them based on that issue. Won't make that mistake again.

[crankedup]

Blue62 said:

crankedup said:

It's perfectly reasonable for a political party to say we want to stay in the EU and will campaign for it, just as it was for UKIP to take it's seats in Brussels and oppose. Pretty much half the country wants to stay in, without going back over old ground, a decision such as this should have required far more than 50.01% of the vote to get through, there is simply too much at stake and Leave know it, which is why they are back peddling. You get on with your embarrassment and vote with your feet.
[/quote

Your upset aren't you.
When you have cleared your head of anger at losing out what you expected and wanted perhaps then you can digest the implications of exactly what democracy means.
As for back peddling, I don't know what you mean. I am very relaxed regarding the Countries decision and see great opportunities for the future of my grandchild.

I'm surprised that you are a long standing LD, looking at your posts it seems there's a bit of a disconnect between you and the party. You are right, I am upset about the referendum but the point is about the right of a political party to stand on an issue, I think that's where democracy kicks in. A further point is that people are entitled to change their minds and now that we have the benefit of hindsight, we might make a more informed decision. Judging by your grammar I would guess that you are far from relaxed, or maybe you just conform to the Leaver stereotype of uneducated.

Yup I'm totally uneducated if that's what you want to hear, I have made my way and now am retired. Do I care much for those that express concern regarding the Brexit, of course, but a period of grief is always a forerunner to a rebuild. Am I relaxed you ask or are you informing me? Not completely relaxed as my daughter and her husband are both city workers in the finance industry. Both of their jobs are at risk owing to the Brexit vote, meanwhile they accept that the Country has spoken and get on with life.

Meanwhile this nonsense about another referendum concerning our membership of the EU is simply a group of disgruntled people who are unable to accept that their wishes to remain members has been extinguished.

Your correct about my LD political preference, this may come as a surprise, but as an individual I find that my political beliefs are aligned to the LD political philosophy in most major areas of the parties framework, except the EU question. I am pleased that the EU question has now been answered.

For clarity, most posters on PH who post in this forum on a regular basis took the pee regarding my LD allegiance, strikes me the hypocrisy displayed with the suggestions that the LD are suggesting a second opportunity regarding the Brexit vote. Hypocrisy and political opportunism make good bedfellows, not what I want from a Government. On that basis I would rather discard my card.

[crankedup]

Robertj21a said:

footnote said:

I'll not insult you by asking if you haven't heard about the 2nd referendum petition.
I'll take it as a given that you know about it but are discounting it for whatever reasons of your own.
But, however valid those reasons are, it still bears mentioning that the petition is approaching 4million despite having had hundreds of thousands knocked off for suspected fraud.

In the last few days, and I'm sure I haven't followed the debates as closely as some, but in terms of politicians or opinion shapers, I can think of David Lammy, Richard Branson, Tim Farron and today Jeremy Hunt. These are of course, the ones who can command media attention for their thoughts.

There's enough media coverage of the subject to suggest that the reality of Brexit has left many 'leavers' questioning whether their decisions may have been rash.

And while you can make the case that, regret it or not, that's democracy - my feeling is that just because someone swears on their kids' lives, if they then turn out to be lying, I wouldn't expect to take their kids' lives - on a point of principle.

I think the world has changed from a time when people would have literally eaten their hats.

There was something in the FT today - an opinion piece I think but I don't have it to hand - about whether it was preferable to suffer the embarrassment/humiliation of not leaving the EU or forcing ourselves to go ahead and leave the EU and suffer the consequences, now that we're a bit more knowledgeable in economic terms.

They came down on taking the blushing cheeks, which would be my choice too.

I would add if the referendum was intended in any way to settle any dispute between leavers and remainers - it has failed spectacularly.

Sorry, but for all your many words I think I can sum up your view as 'Democracy is great (but only when I agree with the result)'.

There won't be a 2nd referendum. Like it or not, we should now move on.

Indeed.

[CrutyRammers]

footnote said:

On what do you base an assertion that a second referendum is not the 'will of the people'?

For that matter, when did the holding of the first referendum become the 'will of the people'?

None of the main political parties wanted it. All campaigned to remain.

All of the 3 parties had previously promised a referendum in their manifestos. And then refused to deliver them, even to the point of arguing in court that nobody really expects them to honour their manifestos so it didn't matter.
It was time. The fact that what the parties want went against what a majority of the electorate wanted is exactly why a referendum was the right thing to do.

[glazbagun]

otherman said:

glazbagun said:

He should write the pledge on the back of the card he held for his tuition fees pledge and ask for a chance to redeem himself.

It wasn't a pledge. It was one of a hundred manifesto proposals. Never in the history of british politics has any party followed through on all its manifesto. Difficulty for the libs was that they didn't anticipate how many people would vote for them based on that issue. Won't make that mistake again.

[footnote]

crankedup said:

Robertj21a said:

footnote said:

I'll not insult you by asking if you haven't heard about the 2nd referendum petition.
I'll take it as a given that you know about it but are discounting it for whatever reasons of your own.
But, however valid those reasons are, it still bears mentioning that the petition is approaching 4million despite having had hundreds of thousands knocked off for suspected fraud.

In the last few days, and I'm sure I haven't followed the debates as closely as some, but in terms of politicians or opinion shapers, I can think of David Lammy, Richard Branson, Tim Farron and today Jeremy Hunt. These are of course, the ones who can command media attention for their thoughts.

There's enough media coverage of the subject to suggest that the reality of Brexit has left many 'leavers' questioning whether their decisions may have been rash.

And while you can make the case that, regret it or not, that's democracy - my feeling is that just because someone swears on their kids' lives, if they then turn out to be lying, I wouldn't expect to take their kids' lives - on a point of principle.

I think the world has changed from a time when people would have literally eaten their hats.

There was something in the FT today - an opinion piece I think but I don't have it to hand - about whether it was preferable to suffer the embarrassment/humiliation of not leaving the EU or forcing ourselves to go ahead and leave the EU and suffer the consequences, now that we're a bit more knowledgeable in economic terms.

They came down on taking the blushing cheeks, which would be my choice too.

I would add if the referendum was intended in any way to settle any dispute between leavers and remainers - it has failed spectacularly.

Sorry, but for all your many words I think I can sum up your view as 'Democracy is great (but only when I agree with the result)'.

There won't be a 2nd referendum. Like it or not, we should now move on.

Indeed.

Points noted. I'll be exercising my democratic right to campaign to Remain - however that happens.

I listened to another yet another Leaver advocating the 'Norway' position, given that access to the single market is now accepted as an essential.

Norway gets access to the single market by paying money and taking immigrants.

We already had that deal and indeed a better deal than other nations but England wanted access to the single market and not paying money and not taking immigrants.

I must try that negotiating approach in a car showroom.

I believe there will be a general election and either no second referendum and no leaving or a second referendum and no leaving.

[Blue62]

crankedup said:

Yup I'm totally uneducated if that's what you want to hear, I have made my way and now am retired. Do I care much for those that express concern regarding the Brexit, of course, but a period of grief is always a forerunner to a rebuild. Am I relaxed you ask or are you informing me? Not completely relaxed as my daughter and her husband are both city workers in the finance industry. Both of their jobs are at risk owing to the Brexit vote, meanwhile they accept that the Country has spoken and get on with life.

Meanwhile this nonsense about another referendum concerning our membership of the EU is simply a group of disgruntled people who are unable to accept that their wishes to remain members has been extinguished.

Your correct about my LD political preference, this may come as a surprise, but as an individual I find that my political beliefs are aligned to the LD political philosophy in most major areas of the parties framework, except the EU question. I am pleased that the EU question has now been answered.

For clarity, most posters on PH who post in this forum on a regular basis took the pee regarding my LD allegiance, strikes me the hypocrisy displayed with the suggestions that the LD are suggesting a second opportunity regarding the Brexit vote. Hypocrisy and political opportunism make good bedfellows, not what I want from a Government. On that basis I would rather discard my card.

For clarity, the relaxed comment was in reference to your own statement about being relaxed and the uneducated remark was a joke, hence the use of the word stereotype. If you do have offspring who work in the city I very much doubt your assertion that they have accepted the result, though I've obviously no idea what their jobs are. I don't understand what you object to with regard to the LD stance, they are pro-Europe so why wouldn't they offer an olive branch? Political opportunism is everywhere, Jeremy Hunt, Boris, Sturgeon are the latest examples but it's something we have lived with forever, why it should suddenly affect your voting habits at this stage in your life is anyone's guess, maybe a little political opportunism of your own.

[footnote]

From a bleeding heart liberal perspective of course, but I can't help but be pleased to see John Kerry sticking his oar in:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/29/jo...

Perhaps, we'll yet do our bit to save the world from an unholy alliance of Johnson, Trump and Putin.

Like in The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn Part II, when Alice uses her special powers to show the Volturi the future if they act rashly now - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qp3AeWmt38

On a more nostalgic note, regarding Corbyn and Labour today, anyone reminded of Alan Bleasedale's GBH?

As Cameron remarked in pmq's, it's better for the Tories if Corbyn stays and times that by ten for the LibDems if Corbyn stays.

Come on Tim Farron!

[BlackLabel]

Apparantly the Lib Dems are making a comeback.

Tory MPs disillusioned by their Government’s “pig-headed” approach should defect to the Lib Dems, or face losing their seats to the party at the next election, Tim Farron has said.

[anonymous-user]

A good vote winner, 48%+ of the population will be tempted