How do we think EU negotiations will go?

How do we think EU negotiations will go?

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anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
Altogether now!

"The wheels on the bus go round and round........" typeargueblah

Jockman

17,912 posts

159 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
///ajd said:
Jockman said:
Are we Remaining now?
No, it seems not. At least no one seems to have changed their minds despite reports like this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/br...

I recall you were almost neutral Jockman - what do you make of how it is going?
My preference in June 2016 was for brexit, so not so neutral.

Never have been, never will be, a so-called 'hard' brexiteer.

Remove the bickering, I've learnt a lot from threads like this.

I'm not surprised we are where we are. Two fairly intransigent sides looking for the best for their peoples. The quality from the UK side has been poor. Most Brexit voters must surely be disappointed with the gaffs as well as the ideological overtones from the Tory Party.

But how do I benchmark? I hear very little of EU politicians in the UK press. I hear less of the views of 27 differing nationalities. The BBC leads with Zimbabwe when I yearn for news from Germany. The latter matters more to me at this juncture. (no BBC bashing here, just giving my perception). A united EU front is a facade, just as much as a UK no-deal acceptance is a facade.

I've only noted one concession in the talks - from the UK side to agree with the EU timetable format. You see it as capitulation but you and I had this chat a few months back and I maintain that it was both a generous and a necessary concession from the UK.

As a democrat, first and foremost, I support the majority. I have no problem with a 2nd vote. I have no problem with a Remain win. Nor do I have a problem with an extended Leave vote. People should be confident in their principles but not so dogmatic as to exclude the opinions of others.



ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Sunday 19th November 2017
quotequote all
Great post.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this negotiation is.


Eddie Strohacker

3,879 posts

85 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this referendum wais.
EFA



Can't have your cake & eat it as most of us on the right side of this mentalness have said all along.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
Eddie Strohacker said:
jsf said:
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this referendum wais.
EFA



Can't have your cake & eat it as most of us on the right side of this mentalness have said all along.
If that position stands on the EU side, WTO here we come. No UK government will agree to tie its hands like that.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
This is part of the Brexiteer fantasy of the UK becoming a low regulation, low tax, agile economy. Nothing but laughable fantasy, so it would deeply depressing if it did scupper a deal.

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this negotiation is.
Wouldn't have expected otherwise...

Uk on its own will be far more nimble than a 27 member state, with a 'perfect' deal we would dance rings around them. This speech changes nothing, we will discuss a deal as a whole whilst maintaining the 'no idea is better than a bad deal' stance.

Just like Merkel's opponent did yesterday when he left laugh

James TiT

234 posts

85 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
ORD said:
This is part of the Brexiteer fantasy of the UK becoming a low regulation, low tax, agile economy. Nothing but laughable fantasy, so it would deeply depressing if it did scupper a deal.
Change the record please?

JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this negotiation is.
CityAM said:
The legal consequence of Brexit, the legal consequence, is that the UK financial service providers lose their EU passport."

http://www.cityam.com/276078/michel-barnier-says-c...

However, he said there was a possibility that the EU could judge some of the UK rules as equivalent to its own, and said a good deal would facilitate as much market access as possible, while seeking to avoid a situation whereby the UK and the EU trade under WTO rules.

Whether the UK decides to remain aligned with EU regulations, or move away from them, will be "decisive" in how the EU responds to trade negotiations, he said, suggesting the national parliaments of the EU27 would refused to ratify a deal if the UK wishes to ditch EU standards for competitive advantage.
So we are supposed to pay a massive financial settlement for what exactly?, as he has just ruled out EU passports being part of the deal.



ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
James TiT said:
Change the record please?
Oh did the subject change and I missed it? I thought we were discussing the prospect of the UK becoming a low tax, low regulation economy?


Mrr T

12,152 posts

264 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
jsf said:
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this referendum wais.
EFA



Can't have your cake & eat it as most of us on the right side of this mentalness have said all along.
If that position stands on the EU side, WTO here we come. No UK government will agree to tie its hands like that.
That will be fun. Planes not taking off, channel crossing closed, Kent covered in lorries, Ireland in up roar, government facing motion of no confidence.

It does amuse me team leave kept saying the Uk would have such a strong position in the negotiations we would have our cake and eat it.

It now seems the rEU has us by the b@@@ and is deciding to squeeze.



anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
I don't think it will change anything in the process, but he gave the game away, so lets see what that does to the debate in the public domain.

I see that Sky news is already spinning the positive story of his speech ("EU is readying it's most ambitious trade deal") and not touching this aspect.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
jsf said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
jsf said:
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this referendum wais.
EFA



Can't have your cake & eat it as most of us on the right side of this mentalness have said all along.
If that position stands on the EU side, WTO here we come. No UK government will agree to tie its hands like that.
That will be fun. Planes not taking off, channel crossing closed, Kent covered in lorries, Ireland in up roar, government facing motion of no confidence.

It does amuse me team leave kept saying the Uk would have such a strong position in the negotiations we would have our cake and eat it.

It now seems the rEU has us by the b@@@ and is deciding to squeeze.
You forgot the locusts....

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
That will be fun. Planes not taking off, channel crossing closed, Kent covered in lorries, Ireland in up roar, government facing motion of no confidence.

It does amuse me team leave kept saying the Uk would have such a strong position in the negotiations we would have our cake and eat it.

It now seems the rEU has us by the b@@@ and is deciding to squeeze.
There are intelligent Leave voters, of course. But they have hitched their wagon to those of some of the most blisteringly stupid politicians in history. Davis and his mates are astonishingly dim.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
ORD said:
This is part of the Brexiteer fantasy of the UK becoming a low regulation, low tax, agile economy. Nothing but laughable fantasy, so it would deeply depressing if it did scupper a deal.
Barnier obviously doesn't think it's laughable, he thinks it's a real threat.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
jsf said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
jsf said:
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this referendum wais.
EFA



Can't have your cake & eat it as most of us on the right side of this mentalness have said all along.
If that position stands on the EU side, WTO here we come. No UK government will agree to tie its hands like that.
That will be fun. Planes not taking off, channel crossing closed, Kent covered in lorries, Ireland in up roar, government facing motion of no confidence.

It does amuse me team leave kept saying the Uk would have such a strong position in the negotiations we would have our cake and eat it.

It now seems the rEU has us by the b@@@ and is deciding to squeeze.
And the EU will be toast. Along with pretty much every single country in it.

JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
jsf said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
jsf said:
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this referendum wais.
EFA



Can't have your cake & eat it as most of us on the right side of this mentalness have said all along.
If that position stands on the EU side, WTO here we come. No UK government will agree to tie its hands like that.
That will be fun. Planes not taking off, channel crossing closed, Kent covered in lorries, Ireland in up roar, government facing motion of no confidence.

It does amuse me team leave kept saying the Uk would have such a strong position in the negotiations we would have our cake and eat it.

It now seems the rEU has us by the b@@@ and is deciding to squeeze.
He said WTO here we come, not North Korea here we come.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
Barnier obviously doesn't think it's laughable, he thinks it's a real threat.
He doesnt know as much about this country as we do.

And he of course has to take it seriously given that it is hugely important.

We can afford to be a bit more realistic and ask ourselves what chance a "slash and burn" government would have of re-election in this country. It would be wiped off the electoral map.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 20th November 2017
quotequote all
JagLover said:
jsf said:
Barnier has just said in a speech that if the UK chooses to diverse its economy away from the EU model any trade deal will not be ratified.

So there we have it, you cant leave and be a competitor, they will only sign a deal if it hamstrings the UK.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/93256918949...

What a farce this negotiation is.
CityAM said:
The legal consequence of Brexit, the legal consequence, is that the UK financial service providers lose their EU passport."

http://www.cityam.com/276078/michel-barnier-says-c...

However, he said there was a possibility that the EU could judge some of the UK rules as equivalent to its own, and said a good deal would facilitate as much market access as possible, while seeking to avoid a situation whereby the UK and the EU trade under WTO rules.

Whether the UK decides to remain aligned with EU regulations, or move away from them, will be "decisive" in how the EU responds to trade negotiations, he said, suggesting the national parliaments of the EU27 would refused to ratify a deal if the UK wishes to ditch EU standards for competitive advantage.
So we are supposed to pay a massive financial settlement for what exactly?, as he has just ruled out EU passports being part of the deal.
They know if UK follows its own path the EU will look rather uncompetitive. So they are trying to hobble the UK and make sure it doesn't really leave the EU. That's rather a risky strategy if they want a deal.

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