How do we think EU negotiations will go?
Discussion
p1stonhead said:
Exactly. All of these people saying 'how much is our share of the assets!?' are just delusional. May will take a knee and pony up the cash to get things moving or she wont (she will).
Thats literally the only thing that will happen. We will never see a breakdown, never know exactly what its for, just write a stonking great cheque.
Those who believe we are freeing ourselves from a repressive yoke to ride the high seas in search of adventure & treasure are not the kind of people particularly inclined to the realities of being a supplicant before a political & commercial project six times our size. Thus, this nonsense will be brought every hour on the hour until the cheque is cashed.Thats literally the only thing that will happen. We will never see a breakdown, never know exactly what its for, just write a stonking great cheque.
sidicks said:
p1stonhead said:
Exactly. All of these people saying 'how much is our share of the assets!?' are just delusional. May will take a knee and pony up the cash to get things moving or she wont (she will).
Thats literally the only thing that will happen. We will never see a breakdown, never know exactly what its for, just write a stonking great cheque.
Why would we pay any more than our minimum legal obligation?Thats literally the only thing that will happen. We will never see a breakdown, never know exactly what its for, just write a stonking great cheque.
Why not ask May why (apparently) shes going to double it from £20b to £40b? Presumably she thinks that will get her a seat at the table for the next round.
p1stonhead said:
Think of it as an entry fee to the negotiations. The EU demand it, we need to get to the negotiations, we need to pay it.
Why on earth should we pay an entry fee to get access to discussions for mutual trade?
p1stonhead said:
Why not ask May why (apparently) shes going to double it from £20b to £40b? Presumably she thinks that will get her a seat at the table for the next round.
Is she? Maybe she knows what our legal obligations are?Eddie Strohacker said:
Those who believe we are freeing ourselves from a repressive yoke to ride the high seas in search of adventure & treasure are not the kind of people particularly inclined to the realities of being a supplicant before a political & commercial project six times our size. Thus, this nonsense will be brought every hour on the hour until the cheque is cashed.
Do you speak like this in real life?sidicks said:
p1stonhead said:
Think of it as an entry fee to the negotiations. The EU demand it, we need to get to the negotiations, we need to pay it.
Why on earth should we pay an entry fee to get access to discussions for mutual trade?
We need access to 'their' market remember. You seem to think this is an hillarious impossibility but the fact FORTY BILLION POUNDS are potentially going to be given to them just to talk about the possibility of us being able to access their market indicates you are probably wrong.
Maybe the £40b is what we actually owe, maybe its not. The fact that it seems to fluctuate wildly by billions (in the press granted and not 'officially') would suggest its just a negotiatable number.
sidicks said:
Why would we pay any more than our minimum legal obligation?
As I understand it, the correct question is "How can we pay more ..."Apparently there's a Parliamentary/Governmental requirement that payments must be justified; any 'exit payment' must be legally required else it be an illegal bribe.
So if the EU can't provide an itemised bill, we can't pay it.
p1stonhead said:
Because its not mutual. We need them a lot more than they need us.
What is the balance of trade between the UK and the rest of the EU?p1stonheads said:
We need access to 'their' market remember. You seem to think this is an hillarious impossibility but the fact FORTY BILLION POUNDS are potentially going to be given to them just to talk about the possibility of us being able to access their market indicates you are probably wrong.
That’s nonsense, unless you believe that there are no legal obligations whatsoever for the UK.p1stonheads said:
Maybe the £40b is what we actually owe, maybe its not. The fact that it seems to fluctuate wildly by billions (in the press granted and not 'officially') would suggest its just a negotiatable number.
Either that or those quoting the number have a hidden agenda.handpaper said:
As I understand it, the correct question is "How can we pay more ..."
Apparently there's a Parliamentary/Governmental requirement that payments must be justified; any 'exit payment' must be legally required else it be an illegal bribe.
So if the EU can't provide an itemised bill, we can't pay it.
Like the £1bn bung to the DUP pet projects?Apparently there's a Parliamentary/Governmental requirement that payments must be justified; any 'exit payment' must be legally required else it be an illegal bribe.
So if the EU can't provide an itemised bill, we can't pay it.
p1stonhead said:
Because its not mutual. We need them a lot more than they need us.
We need access to 'their' market remember. You seem to think this is an hillarious impossibility but the fact FORTY BILLION POUNDS are potentially going to be given to them just to talk about the possibility of us being able to access their market indicates you are probably wrong.
Maybe the £40b is what we actually owe, maybe its not. The fact that it seems to fluctuate wildly by billions (in the press granted and not 'officially') would suggest its just a negotiatable number.
We need access to 'their' market remember. You seem to think this is an hillarious impossibility but the fact FORTY BILLION POUNDS are potentially going to be given to them just to talk about the possibility of us being able to access their market indicates you are probably wrong.
Maybe the £40b is what we actually owe, maybe its not. The fact that it seems to fluctuate wildly by billions (in the press granted and not 'officially') would suggest its just a negotiatable number.
Then why don't the EU just come straight out and tell us how much the bill is?
sidicks said:
p1stonhead said:
Because its not mutual. We need them a lot more than they need us.
What is the balance of trade between the UK and the rest of the EU?p1stonheads said:
We need access to 'their' market remember. You seem to think this is an hillarious impossibility but the fact FORTY BILLION POUNDS are potentially going to be given to them just to talk about the possibility of us being able to access their market indicates you are probably wrong.
That’s nonsense, unless you believe that there are no legal obligations whatsoever for the UK.p1stonheads said:
Maybe the £40b is what we actually owe, maybe its not. The fact that it seems to fluctuate wildly by billions (in the press granted and not 'officially') would suggest its just a negotiatable number.
Either that or those quoting the number have a hidden agenda.1. They arent trying to desperately get us to talk about their access to our domestic market.
2. They have demanded we settle up this bill before they will even talk to us on trade we want with theirs.
Why dont we send them a bill to access our market! That'll show them. Or they wont give a damn.
gooner1 said:
p1stonhead said:
Because its not mutual. We need them a lot more than they need us.
We need access to 'their' market remember. You seem to think this is an hillarious impossibility but the fact FORTY BILLION POUNDS are potentially going to be given to them just to talk about the possibility of us being able to access their market indicates you are probably wrong.
Maybe the £40b is what we actually owe, maybe its not. The fact that it seems to fluctuate wildly by billions (in the press granted and not 'officially') would suggest its just a negotiatable number.
We need access to 'their' market remember. You seem to think this is an hillarious impossibility but the fact FORTY BILLION POUNDS are potentially going to be given to them just to talk about the possibility of us being able to access their market indicates you are probably wrong.
Maybe the £40b is what we actually owe, maybe its not. The fact that it seems to fluctuate wildly by billions (in the press granted and not 'officially') would suggest its just a negotiatable number.
Then why don't the EU just come straight out and tell us how much the bill is?
ORD said:
Sidicks, you are confusing "balance of payments" for "benefits of trade". We have a negative balance of payments in terms of EU trade, but we benefit massively from it.
I am confusing nothing, I simply asked a question.Do the EU benefit massively from this trade too or do they do it out of kindness, simply to benefit the UK?
Dr Jekyll said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Like the £1bn bung to the DUP pet projects?
That £1bn is spending on infrastructure projects so there will be invoices for the relevant work. Seems a fair summation of the state of play.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/24/t...
What is rather amusing is that we could pay the vast settlement Remainers are insisting we just hand over with no preconditions and the Irish could still block the deal and we cannot agree to a deal the Irish want without bringing the government (reliant on the DUP) down
I'm surprised the odds on "no deal" are as low as 37% or so.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/24/t...
What is rather amusing is that we could pay the vast settlement Remainers are insisting we just hand over with no preconditions and the Irish could still block the deal and we cannot agree to a deal the Irish want without bringing the government (reliant on the DUP) down
I'm surprised the odds on "no deal" are as low as 37% or so.
sidicks said:
p1stonhead said:
Because it probably isnt a bill that can be quantified. It will just be paid quietly by May and we will be told to forget about it.
You think we can’t quantify our legal obligations?Watch this space?
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