How do we think EU negotiations will go?
Discussion
sidicks said:
Breadvan72 said:
I am not talking about immigration.
You were earlier!Breadvan72 said:
Do you mean outside the UK or outside the EU?
Already corrected! * Britain is not inherently superior as a political and legal culture to others, but it stole a march on others by having its revolution early and developing modern political and legal forms ahead of others.
Breadvan72 said:
The river moves on. The subject isn't fixed. The benefits I am talking about include peace (mainly), sharing of civic values, promotion of linguistic and cultural exchanges, and so on. It is possible to obtain those things outside the EU, but there is a question as to why painfully re-invent several wheels when you have one big wheel already. Is now a good time for Britain to be adopting an insular position rather than remaining engaged and influential within a power bloc? Britain's historical role (since about the C18) as balance keeper for Europe may be diminished by leaving. Add the tutelary role - civic values associated with British political and legal systems have been spread across Europe*. It's a shame to give up the teaching as well as the learning.
* Britain is not inherently superior as a political and legal culture to others, but it stole a march on others by having its revolution early and developing modern political and legal forms ahead of others.
Seeking not to be constrained by the EU is not insular thinking.* Britain is not inherently superior as a political and legal culture to others, but it stole a march on others by having its revolution early and developing modern political and legal forms ahead of others.
B'stard Child said:
Mrr T said:
Its worked look at the economic data, GDP growing, low unemployment, high job vacancies, and real income growth. Who would not love it? (I do know the answer to that).
Excellent - then I don't need to counter the viewpointMrr T said:
The current EU FOML is the closest we have to a market solution.
Its worked look at the economic data, GDP growing, low unemployment, high job vacancies, and real income growth. Who would not love it? (I do know the answer to that).
If you picked any 15 year period in the post war period I doubt there would be any worse in economic performance than the period since 2000, when open borders began.Its worked look at the economic data, GDP growing, low unemployment, high job vacancies, and real income growth. Who would not love it? (I do know the answer to that).
Productivity growth has been very poor and, following on from that, so has been real wages growth. The only economic indicators that have done reasonable well is unemployment and inflation.
sidicks said:
Breadvan72 said:
What are the constraints that bug you?
Our ability to negotiate trade deals with other countries that suit us, not 27 countries with competing interests, would be a start.Breadvan72 said:
You are right that people of independent means can move around, but those people may be relatively few in number.
That maybe for UK immigrants from the EU but for UK emigrants to the EU I believe it’s about 50%. I have not seen any comment from either side about the S1 system. If I was a pensioner in Spain I might be getting worried.Breadvan72 said:
Trying to monetise what a person gives to and takes from society is almost as daft as trying to monetise EU membership, but Mail and Telegraph World is all about hard cash.
Are you suggesting economics is daft? Monetising peoples contribution to society is basic macroeconomics. The figure of £23k before you contribute is a figure for the whole population is interesting (it should never be used when comparing to immigrants because the age demographic is very different) because it shows the life cycle of contributions, children and young adults have negative contribution, as the person ages their contribution increases and it becomes positive, until they retire, it then drops a quickly becomes negative again. If you look at population demographics for the UK (well actually for most of the industrialised world) it’s horrible. An increasingly aging population with negative contributions having to be supported by a falling working age populations. EU immigration helped to address that for a while. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff