Angela Merkel

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Discussion

fido

16,752 posts

254 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
I will vote Tory as our MP is rather good, I'm in the exceptionally safe Tory area. I still think that Brexit is a very bad idea.
Exactly - but you'll get voters switching TO the Conservatives from Labour and UKIP to
ensure Brexit happens.

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
What benefit of Brexit are you appreciating?
Very many, but if you want just one then it would be quite simple - the knowledge that, in due course, we will be free of the controls exercised by the EU.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
Merkel is doing what politicians with a massive problem do, oh look, a squirrel........

Anything to take away the ridiculous structure of the Euro and what the Germans will have to swallow to sort it out will be deployed during the run up to the German elections.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

Merkel isn't stupid, she knows the UK will put restrictions on immigration, its none of her business what we do. We will also set our own laws with regards to workers rights. All she is trying to do with these comments is shore up her position in terms of trying to make the EU look more important than it is, countries can and do have fair and sensible migration and workers rights without the nonsense of the EU to pay for, but you cant be allowed to think that if you are in the EU club.

Meanwhile, Italy is losing its skilled youth by the bucket load, youth unemployment is enormous throughout the EU, the southern nations are in permanent austerity, the eastern block demographic is aging at alarming rates due to migration to the west and Germany racks up yet more IOU's from the south that will blow the EU apart and bring the German economy crashing when the Euro splits and the real value of the German Euro is priced into its currency.

If I were Merkel I'd want to lose the next election and do a Blair, because its going to make the Brown PM era look like nirvana when this goes tits up.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
Robertj21a said:
Very many, but if you want just one then it would be quite simple - the knowledge that, in due course, we will be free of the controls exercised by the EU.
So nothing right now? Which particular 'control' was blighting your life?

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
So nothing right now? Which particular 'control' was blighting your life?
I thought this was a thread about Angela Merkel ?

Still, as you're clearly a very disgruntled 'Remainer', perhaps you can explain why I should need to have a benefit 'right now' ? Like many others, my vote to leave was based on the longer term, not anything 'right now'.

Why would you expect anything right now ? Seems a very odd question.

Einion Yrth

19,575 posts

243 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
So nothing right now? Which particular 'control' was blighting your life?
It's not about any particular control; Dan Hannan describes the issue, better than I can here. It's forty odd minutes, but even if you disagree with him, he speaks so well that you might perhaps hear him out.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
Robertj21a said:
jjlynn27 said:
So nothing right now? Which particular 'control' was blighting your life?
I thought this was a thread about Angela Merkel ?

Still, as you're clearly a very disgruntled 'Remainer', perhaps you can explain why I should need to have a benefit 'right now' ? Like many others, my vote to leave was based on the longer term, not anything 'right now'.

Why would you expect anything right now ? Seems a very odd question.
It is. You might want to look up your post that I've replied to. Still, nothing on which control was infringing on your freedoms.
As for Merkel, she was written off so many times on the number of threads within NP&E. By the same people predicting / hoping for victory by dutch numpty and Le Pen. She seems to be quite comfortable from here.

Einion Yrth

19,575 posts

243 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
Robertj21a said:
jjlynn27 said:
So nothing right now? Which particular 'control' was blighting your life?
I thought this was a thread about Angela Merkel ?

Still, as you're clearly a very disgruntled 'Remainer', perhaps you can explain why I should need to have a benefit 'right now' ? Like many others, my vote to leave was based on the longer term, not anything 'right now'.

Why would you expect anything right now ? Seems a very odd question.
It is. You might want to look up your post that I've replied to. Still, nothing on which control was infringing on your freedoms.
Actually, any control impinges on your freedom, pretty much by definition; some are acceptable for the sake of a civil society. Most aren't.

Disastrous

10,072 posts

216 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
Sway said:
Disastrous said:
Sway said:
Disastrous said:
amgmcqueen said:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/angela-merkel-...

Has she been on the weed again? Does she even understand why Brexit happened?

Once again, staggering arrogance shown from the self-appointed Furher of Europe!
What else is she meant to say??
Well the last thing I'd expect someone looking for reelection to say is that they'd make life difficult for German companies to sell car components to a different country...

Ignoring the ridiculous nature of that comment when she's trying to appeal to German voters, not EU apparatchiks, how on earth does she even think that's achievable?
I'm not sure she thinks it is - do politicians only say things they think they can achieve?

Bottom line is, the EU countries will need to be seen to be coming down hard on the UK. They would be derelict in their responsibility towards the EU if they didn't make it as hard as possible for anyone trying to leave it.

The European people are very offended, if that's the right term, by Britain voting out, so I'd expect that to play quite well.

Though as someone asked a few pages back, no, my German in-laws aren't high level EU economists so obviously you need to take that into account hehe
She may not think it's workable, but as a very specific measure to punish Britain for leaving it's absolutely daft. Who on earth in Germany would think it's a good idea to punish Britain by making German companies' lives harder to trade with us?

I'm friends, and work with, lots of Europeans. The plural of anecdote isn't evidence, but I'm yet to see anything that even closely shows normal European Citizens are offended by Brexit. A couple are at most 'disappointed', most are indifferent, a couple envious.

This isn't a message to gain support from the German people, it's squarely aimed at the apparatchiks - who aren't her electorate.

This for me is one of the biggest issues with the EU - the national politicians have started putting 'the EU' above the interests of their own people...
That's fair enough - my evidence is anecdotal at best and I ought to have said 'Bavarians' rather than 'Europeans' and I admit they aren't always representative of the whole.

I broadly don't disagree with you, that this is aimed at the EU, but I would bet (on not much more than gut feeling) that most Germans are broadly EU minded, and that toeing the EU line will play well at home.

That said, I think it's a disgrace that any politicians are using people and their livelihoods as bargaining pawns in this.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
Disastrous said:
That's fair enough - my evidence is anecdotal at best and I ought to have said 'Bavarians' rather than 'Europeans' and I admit they aren't always representative of the whole.

I broadly don't disagree with you, that this is aimed at the EU, but I would bet (on not much more than gut feeling) that most Germans are broadly EU minded, and that toeing the EU line will play well at home.

That said, I think it's a disgrace that any politicians are using people and their livelihoods as bargaining pawns in this.
thumbup

It seems we mostly agree. The bit I'd challenge is that whilst Germans are perhaps the most EU minded of the various nationalities, I'm not sure I've ever really been aware of any scenario where they've had to suffer any noticeable hardships 'for the greater good' - indeed there's been a couple of occasions where they 'should' have and they resisted it very strongly.

So I'm not sure some specific comment aimed at clearly harming German businesses will go down well at all. Probably not sufficient to have a material impact on her election, and I suppose it's at least feasible those companies are located in areas she's effectively given up on anyway.

I cannot help but find her stance very, very odd though!

amgmcqueen

3,343 posts

149 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
Disastrous said:
amgmcqueen said:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/angela-merkel-...

Has she been on the weed again? Does she even understand why Brexit happened?

Once again, staggering arrogance shown from the self-appointed Furher of Europe!
What else is she meant to say??
Who the UK decides to let through it's borders has absolutely nothing to do with Germany...if she hasn't already realised we're leaving the EU and we can now do what we fking like!

Does bullying, threats and blackmailing one of their closest trade partners and allies go down well with German voters...? Britain wouldn't dream of saying such things to any of it's neighbours, like I said unbelievable arrogance from the self-appointed Furher.

Disastrous

10,072 posts

216 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
amgmcqueen said:
Disastrous said:
amgmcqueen said:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/angela-merkel-...

Has she been on the weed again? Does she even understand why Brexit happened?

Once again, staggering arrogance shown from the self-appointed Furher of Europe!
What else is she meant to say??
Who the UK decides to let through it's borders has absolutely nothing to do with Germany...if she hasn't already realised we're leaving the EU and we can now do what we fking like!

Does bullying, threats and blackmailing one of their closest trade partners and allies go down well with German voters...? Britain wouldn't dream of saying such things to any of it's neighbours, like I said unbelievable arrogance from the self-appointed Furher.
I think you'll find that the UK government suggested that EU citizens legally resident in the UK might be at risk if negotiations on Brexit faltered so please don't think Merkel is the only one at it.

As I said before, I think that sort of human horsetrading is inexcusable from either side but if you introduce emotive language like 'Führer' then you don't move discussions on. You obviously aren't intending to conflate modern Germany with the Nazi party so why use the term?

FN2TypeR

7,091 posts

92 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
The dollar is also stored by states in reserve against oil, because oil is priced in dollars. Price oil in something else, states will sell dollars to buy the new hedge currency. The effect of selling half(?) the dollar value on Earth would be difficult to miss.

Saddam threatened to price in Euros.
Didn't Colonel Gaddafi also tout the idea of African nations using a currency other than USA for their oil dealings?

scratchchin

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
Disastrous said:
amgmcqueen said:
Disastrous said:
amgmcqueen said:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/angela-merkel-...

Has she been on the weed again? Does she even understand why Brexit happened?

Once again, staggering arrogance shown from the self-appointed Furher of Europe!
What else is she meant to say??
Who the UK decides to let through it's borders has absolutely nothing to do with Germany...if she hasn't already realised we're leaving the EU and we can now do what we fking like!

Does bullying, threats and blackmailing one of their closest trade partners and allies go down well with German voters...? Britain wouldn't dream of saying such things to any of it's neighbours, like I said unbelievable arrogance from the self-appointed Furher.
I think you'll find that the UK government suggested that EU citizens legally resident in the UK might be at risk if negotiations on Brexit faltered so please don't think Merkel is the only one at it.

As I said before, I think that sort of human horsetrading is inexcusable from either side but if you introduce emotive language like 'Führer' then you don't move discussions on. You obviously aren't intending to conflate modern Germany with the Nazi party so why use the term?
Any agreement on anything has an impact on people. It's just as abhorrent to try and damage the financial standing of a country as it is to damage the persons rights to residence, the former tends to have more impact in practice, both can have a negative material impact to the person. So its a bit silly to try and isolate the rights to reside from the overall impact of any decisions made, they all matter if you want to discuss material impacts on peoples lives.

The EU by definition is a construct that uses human horsetrading, it could be argued its racist as it favours white Europeans over anyone else. It restricts trade from the developing world which has a larger material impact on those people than any nonsense that will come out of the EU regarding freedom of movement within the block.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
Any agreement on anything has an impact on people. It's just as abhorrent to try and damage the financial standing of a country as it is to damage the persons rights to residence, the former tends to have more impact in practice, both can have a negative material impact to the person. So its a bit silly to try and isolate the rights to reside from the overall impact of any decisions made, they all matter if you want to discuss material impacts on peoples lives.

The EU by definition is a construct that uses human horsetrading, it could be argued its racist as it favours white Europeans over anyone else. It restricts trade from the developing world which has a larger material impact on those people than any nonsense that will come out of the EU regarding freedom of movement within the block.
It 'favours white Europeans over anyone else'? Really, it favours them over 'non-white' Europeans?

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
jsf said:
Any agreement on anything has an impact on people. It's just as abhorrent to try and damage the financial standing of a country as it is to damage the persons rights to residence, the former tends to have more impact in practice, both can have a negative material impact to the person. So its a bit silly to try and isolate the rights to reside from the overall impact of any decisions made, they all matter if you want to discuss material impacts on peoples lives.

The EU by definition is a construct that uses human horsetrading, it could be argued its racist as it favours white Europeans over anyone else. It restricts trade from the developing world which has a larger material impact on those people than any nonsense that will come out of the EU regarding freedom of movement within the block.
It 'favours white Europeans over anyone else'? Really, it favours them over 'non-white' Europeans?
Sorry, that doesn't quite read as intended. Add predominantly to it.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Thursday 18th May 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
jjlynn27 said:
jsf said:
Any agreement on anything has an impact on people. It's just as abhorrent to try and damage the financial standing of a country as it is to damage the persons rights to residence, the former tends to have more impact in practice, both can have a negative material impact to the person. So its a bit silly to try and isolate the rights to reside from the overall impact of any decisions made, they all matter if you want to discuss material impacts on peoples lives.

The EU by definition is a construct that uses human horsetrading, it could be argued its racist as it favours white Europeans over anyone else. It restricts trade from the developing world which has a larger material impact on those people than any nonsense that will come out of the EU regarding freedom of movement within the block.
It 'favours white Europeans over anyone else'? Really, it favours them over 'non-white' Europeans?
Sorry, that doesn't quite read as intended. Add predominantly to it.
You brought both 'racist' and 'white' into it. It's nothing of the kind. It favours 'Europeans', citizens of the member states over non-member states. It's nothing to do with skin colour. Only you know why you brought that in.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 19th May 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
jsf said:
jjlynn27 said:
jsf said:
Any agreement on anything has an impact on people. It's just as abhorrent to try and damage the financial standing of a country as it is to damage the persons rights to residence, the former tends to have more impact in practice, both can have a negative material impact to the person. So its a bit silly to try and isolate the rights to reside from the overall impact of any decisions made, they all matter if you want to discuss material impacts on peoples lives.

The EU by definition is a construct that uses human horsetrading, it could be argued its racist as it favours white Europeans over anyone else. It restricts trade from the developing world which has a larger material impact on those people than any nonsense that will come out of the EU regarding freedom of movement within the block.
It 'favours white Europeans over anyone else'? Really, it favours them over 'non-white' Europeans?
Sorry, that doesn't quite read as intended. Add predominantly to it.
You brought both 'racist' and 'white' into it. It's nothing of the kind. It favours 'Europeans', citizens of the member states over non-member states. It's nothing to do with skin colour. Only you know why you brought that in.
Jesus you are hard work. Is this deliberate or are you really this impossible to have a conversation with in real life?



Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Friday 19th May 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
Jesus you are hard work. Is this deliberate or are you really this impossible to have a conversation with in real life?
I detect he just enjoys arguing with people. Not just a pedant, but one who plays 'devils advocate' at times - no wonder most people don't bother replying to him.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 19th May 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
jjlynn27 said:
jsf said:
jjlynn27 said:
jsf said:
Any agreement on anything has an impact on people. It's just as abhorrent to try and damage the financial standing of a country as it is to damage the persons rights to residence, the former tends to have more impact in practice, both can have a negative material impact to the person. So its a bit silly to try and isolate the rights to reside from the overall impact of any decisions made, they all matter if you want to discuss material impacts on peoples lives.

The EU by definition is a construct that uses human horsetrading, it could be argued its racist as it favours white Europeans over anyone else. It restricts trade from the developing world which has a larger material impact on those people than any nonsense that will come out of the EU regarding freedom of movement within the block.
It 'favours white Europeans over anyone else'? Really, it favours them over 'non-white' Europeans?
Sorry, that doesn't quite read as intended. Add predominantly to it.
You brought both 'racist' and 'white' into it. It's nothing of the kind. It favours 'Europeans', citizens of the member states over non-member states. It's nothing to do with skin colour. Only you know why you brought that in.
Jesus you are hard work. Is this deliberate or are you really this impossible to have a conversation with in real life?
So nothing on the subject that you brought up at all? You made up a quite ridiculous statement when pulled up on it, you throw toys out of the pram. Not unexpected.