Uber are getting shirty
Discussion
The reasons TFL gave for refusing to renew Uber's licence are these:-
1. Its approach to reporting serious criminal offences.
2. Its approach to how medical certificates are obtained.
3. Its approach to how Enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks are obtained.
4. Its approach to explaining the use of Greyball in London - software that could be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to the app and prevent officials from undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties.
These reasons seem to be fairly simple for Uber to remedy. Why don't they do it?
I think the days of potential black cab drivers having to do the knowledge must be numbered. This year? Next year? It's got to come hasn't it? Whether sooner or later.
1. Its approach to reporting serious criminal offences.
2. Its approach to how medical certificates are obtained.
3. Its approach to how Enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks are obtained.
4. Its approach to explaining the use of Greyball in London - software that could be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to the app and prevent officials from undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties.
These reasons seem to be fairly simple for Uber to remedy. Why don't they do it?
I think the days of potential black cab drivers having to do the knowledge must be numbered. This year? Next year? It's got to come hasn't it? Whether sooner or later.
skwdenyer said:
5%? Which decade are you living in? We pay between 0.8% and 1.2% on card transactions (from memory), with no minimum fee. Even iZettle are only 1.75%.
Cash deposit at the bank costs 0.8% or so. Obviously (and I do not know) there might be some tax advantages to cash?
Perhaps cabbies aren't able to access cheap card machines? Maybe there's an opening in the market for this?
FWIW I think it is time that accepting cards was made mandatory in all retail businesses.
When even big issue salesmen have a card machine its difficult to argue. I don't - thought about it - but then I'm happy for people to bank transfer me after I leave and that seems to work.Cash deposit at the bank costs 0.8% or so. Obviously (and I do not know) there might be some tax advantages to cash?
Perhaps cabbies aren't able to access cheap card machines? Maybe there's an opening in the market for this?
FWIW I think it is time that accepting cards was made mandatory in all retail businesses.
As for the cash... they've had it good for a long time, but times change.... winners embrace change. A lot of people wish a lot of things were like they were 20/30/40/50 years ago. A sparky like me could ride bicycle to work... now I have a van filled to the roof with a million special bits of kit becase people dont want simple lights and sockets in their home now, they need mood lighting networked to the TV that changes colour when the dinners ready and pours you a bath.
treetops said:
Well let's just say George Osborne is a well paid adviser of a certain investment manager...who've invested £100m in Uber...who'll be desperate not to loose their dosh!
Errr George can you help us out here and justify your laughable fee!?
Ouch. I wonder what sort of press coverage the London Evening Standard will run on Uber/tfl?Errr George can you help us out here and justify your laughable fee!?
Vaud said:
S11Steve said:
I've often wondered why Uber didn't adopt the "Just Eat" business model, and provide a booking, tracking and billing service for existing PHOs, rather than try to compete directly with them.
I can see the appeal being costly and contentious though - they are not the sort of company to take decisions like this lightly, and they do have a huge pool of investor cash to splash on the appeal.
Because it isn't about cabs. It's about a massive, very smart data platform that can be tuned to almost any mode of transport/delivery.I can see the appeal being costly and contentious though - they are not the sort of company to take decisions like this lightly, and they do have a huge pool of investor cash to splash on the appeal.
My take is that TFL know Uber will win the appeal, but this is a warning to them
I gather they are fed up of the systematic underhand tactics Uber use to avoid regulations and laws hence not renewing the licence.
I have no opinion either way
On the other side of the coin y y mate always tells me that black cab drivers lease their cabs out to friends who wont be checked/taken the knowledge, what is in place to stop this?
I gather they are fed up of the systematic underhand tactics Uber use to avoid regulations and laws hence not renewing the licence.
I have no opinion either way
On the other side of the coin y y mate always tells me that black cab drivers lease their cabs out to friends who wont be checked/taken the knowledge, what is in place to stop this?
essayer said:
Frank7 said:
But they DON'T always work, I've been on many that are covered over, with OUT OF SERVICE scrawled on them, and I don't think that you just JOIN Oyster.
I can't remember the last time I went to a shop where the card machine didn't work. We all know what goes on.. even the tiniest of market stalls can take card payments nowadays."Why should I pay 5% to advance credit to passengers" is the usual sentiment. Time for them to join the real world.
A friend of mine has been in the PH business for a few years, and has just posted this - he makes some interesting comments about 13,000 drivers with potentially spurious checks, but also how a lot of the slack can be picked up by companies that have recently lost trade to Uber.
A cabby friend of mine said:
Uber has some 40,000 drivers in London, does this mean suddenly they will be out of work? NO. the demand for rides is still out there and many of London's small PH firms are already geared up to handle both the extra business now coming their way and the drivers that will be now wanting to join them.
However all 40,000 drivers won't be able to integrate into these firms as working for them will require both good local knowledge and a good command of both written and spoken English.
Uber's GPS technology made meeting passengers simple, or rather it made passengers come to the cars with PH firms you have to go to the passengers.
I personally have lost count the number of times I have had to walk into a pub and shout out my passengers name.
Drivers are given an address to go to, not a GPS location, this means you actually have to look for a house name or number, then you have to communicate with the passengers to tell them you are there. there are no "if pax not in car in 2 minutes pull off and you will get a cancellation fee" in PH work" and lot's of other little but major differences that I am sad to say some Uber drivers will not be able to adjust to.
On the upside the fares are about 50% higher than ubers rates and drivers get to keep all the fares and they only have to pay a fixed weekly "rent" to the PH office which in London is an average of £150 per week.
The downside for drivers is that PH firms will now "cherry pick" the best drivers and reject a lot of others.
Sadly a lot of Uber drivers are going to find themselves in deep financial s
t as they are tied into 5 year lease agreements for their cars, I personally have no sympathy for them only an idiot does something like that.
Back to Uber, the way I read this decision is that Uber has to make some major and drastic reforms to both it's operating model and the way it treats it's drivers if it wants to work in London. I expect Uber to attempt to make those changes within the next 21 days.
As for Ubers ethics around the criminal, topographical and medical checks on drivers, well Uber "found" some companies and some doctors that could be persuaded (brown envelope under the table) to perform these checks that would appear to satisfy the requirements, over the last 2 years this has come to light and TFL have now changed things so only companies approved by them will be able to do these checks, TFL have identified some 13000 drivers who have used these other places and has written to them telling them they need to get new checks done or have their licences revoked.
Passengers may not appreciate or understand this but their safety and security just took a massive leap in their favour because small PH firms have a lot more control over their drivers and are a lot more reactive to complaints, including physical offices that are manned 24/7 and landline telephone numbers for passengers to talk to the operators.
On a personal note, I'm aware that a number of my vehicles are used by Uber drivers, however our customers are looking at relocating those vehicles to areas not affected by this decision. We don't supply on 5 year leases though, so they are able to be flexible like this - the drivers who are tied to 5 year lease deals are likely to struggle to get out of those without any penalty. However all 40,000 drivers won't be able to integrate into these firms as working for them will require both good local knowledge and a good command of both written and spoken English.
Uber's GPS technology made meeting passengers simple, or rather it made passengers come to the cars with PH firms you have to go to the passengers.
I personally have lost count the number of times I have had to walk into a pub and shout out my passengers name.
Drivers are given an address to go to, not a GPS location, this means you actually have to look for a house name or number, then you have to communicate with the passengers to tell them you are there. there are no "if pax not in car in 2 minutes pull off and you will get a cancellation fee" in PH work" and lot's of other little but major differences that I am sad to say some Uber drivers will not be able to adjust to.
On the upside the fares are about 50% higher than ubers rates and drivers get to keep all the fares and they only have to pay a fixed weekly "rent" to the PH office which in London is an average of £150 per week.
The downside for drivers is that PH firms will now "cherry pick" the best drivers and reject a lot of others.
Sadly a lot of Uber drivers are going to find themselves in deep financial s
t as they are tied into 5 year lease agreements for their cars, I personally have no sympathy for them only an idiot does something like that.Back to Uber, the way I read this decision is that Uber has to make some major and drastic reforms to both it's operating model and the way it treats it's drivers if it wants to work in London. I expect Uber to attempt to make those changes within the next 21 days.
As for Ubers ethics around the criminal, topographical and medical checks on drivers, well Uber "found" some companies and some doctors that could be persuaded (brown envelope under the table) to perform these checks that would appear to satisfy the requirements, over the last 2 years this has come to light and TFL have now changed things so only companies approved by them will be able to do these checks, TFL have identified some 13000 drivers who have used these other places and has written to them telling them they need to get new checks done or have their licences revoked.
Passengers may not appreciate or understand this but their safety and security just took a massive leap in their favour because small PH firms have a lot more control over their drivers and are a lot more reactive to complaints, including physical offices that are manned 24/7 and landline telephone numbers for passengers to talk to the operators.
TwistingMyMelon said:
On the other side of the coin y y mate always tells me that black cab drivers lease their cabs out to friends who wont be checked/taken the knowledge, what is in place to stop this?
Really? Do you believe in the tooth Fairy as well, or does your mate believe in it?S11Steve said:
Ok, that makes sense, but is that data being monetised outside of the PHO business, or is it simply being used for variable pricing?
Does it have to be?Uber must have the worlds largest market penetration in this field - all they have to do is stay "at the front" and when we go driverless they'll have cornered the market, and be the global amazon of cabs, with a vast client base simply becasue they dont see the point of looking elsewhere.
S11Steve said:
Ok, that makes sense, but is that data being monetised outside of the PHO business, or is it simply being used for variable pricing?
the real target is fully autonomous transport for people and frieght so in this context the data will be monetised directly by uber from approx 2022 onwards in order to choke off the main car manufacturers and freight providers. Frank7 said:
TwistingMyMelon said:
On the other side of the coin y y mate always tells me that black cab drivers lease their cabs out to friends who wont be checked/taken the knowledge, what is in place to stop this?
Really? Do you believe in the tooth Fairy as well, or does your mate believe in it?
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