Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2

[Burwood]

serious question for Dimots. If you are voting Labour (and you say you are), you must be comfortable with the fact that if we needed to repel an enemy or defend our country/territories, Corbyn would never use force. He is a risk to our security, no?

[arfursleep]

dimots said:

I'm still hoping that the shock of brexit (which I believe most people under 50 thought would not happen) will inspire the non voting class to show up en masse and vote Labour/Lib Dem/ Green and anything but Tory. It's our only hope...if the Tories win again it's a highway to doom for anyone whose kids aren't in private school and who appreciates such liberties as libraries, public transport and tap water.

ah yes, the 'vote tactically' campaign. Brilliant idea, just vote for anyone anywhere that isn't a Tory and then when the non-tories "win" they'll be this beautiful, harmonious coalition of the other parties... Don't mind that you don't agree with the policies of the party or the candidate, that the candidate is fresh out MP school, moved to the area 3 days ago and hasn't worked in anything but politics since leaving uni after reading PoliSci,

bull-fking-st

It'll never happen, and if by a miracle it did, it would be a complete clusterfk - all parties are in-fighting and back stabbing at the best of times, suddenly with a little power grab they're going to come together with the opposition and play nice? Dream on.

[Likes Fast Cars]

arfursleep said:

ah yes, the 'vote tactically' campaign. Brilliant idea, just vote for anyone anywhere that isn't a Tory and then when the non-tories "win" they'll be this beautiful, harmonious coalition of the other parties... Don't mind that you don't agree with the policies of the party or the candidate, that the candidate is fresh out MP school, moved to the area 3 days ago and hasn't worked in anything but politics since leaving uni after reading PoliSci,

bull-fking-st

It'll never happen, and if by a miracle it did, it would be a complete clusterfk - all parties are in-fighting and back stabbing at the best of times, suddenly with a little power grab they're going to come together with the opposition and play nice? Dream on.

& the country would descend into chaos just like Venezuela.

[jonby]

dimots said:

I'm still hoping that the shock of brexit (which I believe most people under 50 thought would not happen) will inspire the non voting class to show up en masse and vote Labour/Lib Dem/ Green and anything but Tory. It's our only hope...if the Tories win again it's a highway to doom for anyone whose kids aren't in private school and who appreciates such liberties as libraries, public transport and tap water.

And therein lies the problem

For those that already 'hate the tories', of whom there are many, it's preaching to the converted

But if you expect anyone to change their mind in terms of who they vote for or whether they vote at all, you need to give a positive reason, not a negative reason, to inspire them

The only people who will vote for negative reasons are those that have already decided what they are doing

I find it astonishing that there are so many people taking the same stance as yourself, namely do anything you can to stop the tories, without giving actual credible policies (not soundbites or ideas), that these other parties will bring in, that are so inspiring people will go out to vote for them. What I mostly hear instead is a mixture of sour grapes and idealism

It's a little like Corbyn himself actually. There's an awful lot he says which is 'lovely', 'nice' and I imagine well intentioned. But what he seems to fail to realise is that whilst surely everyone would like longer holidays, more pay (for everyone), better carers allowances, a more effective NHS, more homes, cheaper homes, etc, some of us need to hear how it's going to be paid for in the way of actual thought through policies before we will find him credible. Saying things like 'tories destroyed the NHS and we will make it better' are worthless to anyone except those already voting labour, unless they come up with a budget for how it will be paid for. That first requires a policy. Corbyn has neither. For anything. Nobody who isn't already voting for Corbyn will be persuaded to vote for him based on that.

[Jonmx]

jonby said:

And therein lies the problem

For those that already 'hate the tories', of whom there are many, it's preaching to the converted

But if you expect anyone to change their mind in terms of who they vote for or whether they vote at all, you need to give a positive reason, not a negative reason, to inspire them

The only people who will vote for negative reasons are those that have already decided what they are doing

I find it astonishing that there are so many people taking the same stance as yourself, namely do anything you can to stop the tories, without giving actual credible policies (not soundbites or ideas), that these other parties will bring in, that are so inspiring people will go out to vote for them. What I mostly hear instead is a mixture of sour grapes and idealism

It's a little like Corbyn himself actually. There's an awful lot he says which is 'lovely', 'nice' and I imagine well intentioned. But what he seems to fail to realise is that whilst surely everyone would like longer holidays, more pay (for everyone), better carers allowances, a more effective NHS, more homes, cheaper homes, etc, some of us need to hear how it's going to be paid for in the way of actual thought through policies before we will find him credible. Saying things like 'tories destroyed the NHS and we will make it better' are worthless to anyone except those already voting labour, unless they come up with a budget for how it will be paid for. That first requires a policy. Corbyn has neither. For anything. Nobody who isn't already voting for Corbyn will be persuaded to vote for him based on that.

Good post and echoes what I feel, but put far more eloquently. As Thatcher put it, 'the trouble with Socialism is, eventually you run out of other people's money.'

[Burwood]

jonby said:

dimots said:

I'm still hoping that the shock of brexit (which I believe most people under 50 thought would not happen) will inspire the non voting class to show up en masse and vote Labour/Lib Dem/ Green and anything but Tory. It's our only hope...if the Tories win again it's a highway to doom for anyone whose kids aren't in private school and who appreciates such liberties as libraries, public transport and tap water.

And therein lies the problem

For those that already 'hate the tories', of whom there are many, it's preaching to the converted

But if you expect anyone to change their mind in terms of who they vote for or whether they vote at all, you need to give a positive reason, not a negative reason, to inspire them

The only people who will vote for negative reasons are those that have already decided what they are doing

I find it astonishing that there are so many people taking the same stance as yourself, namely do anything you can to stop the tories, without giving actual credible policies (not soundbites or ideas), that these other parties will bring in, that are so inspiring people will go out to vote for them. What I mostly hear instead is a mixture of sour grapes and idealism

It's a little like Corbyn himself actually. There's an awful lot he says which is 'lovely', 'nice' and I imagine well intentioned. But what he seems to fail to realise is that whilst surely everyone would like longer holidays, more pay (for everyone), better carers allowances, a more effective NHS, more homes, cheaper homes, etc, some of us need to hear how it's going to be paid for in the way of actual thought through policies before we will find him credible. Saying things like 'tories destroyed the NHS and we will make it better' are worthless to anyone except those already voting labour, unless they come up with a budget for how it will be paid for. That first requires a policy. Corbyn has neither. For anything. Nobody who isn't already voting for Corbyn will be persuaded to vote for him based on that.

Indeed- if you read the interviews/Q&A with voters. "Gordon from Hull is very unhappy with Corbyn but will vote labour cos that's what his family have always done"

And on here you have a poster like Dimots who will vote labour regardless. The point is, non Tory.

And to be fair I would never vote labour. It wouldn't matter what the Tories did. I was very close last time to NOT voting for Cameron. I did in the end which is typical of the polls margin of error

[FN2TypeR]

Burwood said:

Indeed- if you read the interviews/Q&A with voters. "Gordon from Hull is very unhappy with Corbyn but will vote labour cos that's what his family have always done"

And on here you have a poster like Dimots who will vote labour regardless. The point is, non Tory.

In fairness tribal voting isn't just confined to the Labour Party support, although I'd say that it's more entrenched in certain areas/communities (ex mining/steel etc) than the Tory vote.

[Burwood]

FN2TypeR said:

Burwood said:

Indeed- if you read the interviews/Q&A with voters. "Gordon from Hull is very unhappy with Corbyn but will vote labour cos that's what his family have always done"

And on here you have a poster like Dimots who will vote labour regardless. The point is, non Tory.

In fairness tribal voting isn't just confined to the Labour Party support, although I'd say that it's more entrenched in certain areas/communities (ex mining/steel etc) than the Tory vote.

I added that very point

[jonby]

FN2TypeR said:

Burwood said:

Indeed- if you read the interviews/Q&A with voters. "Gordon from Hull is very unhappy with Corbyn but will vote labour cos that's what his family have always done"

And on here you have a poster like Dimots who will vote labour regardless. The point is, non Tory.

In fairness tribal voting isn't just confined to the Labour Party support, although I'd say that it's more entrenched in certain areas/communities (ex mining/steel etc) than the Tory vote.

Correct

But tribal voters often seem to forget that other tribal voters have already decided what they are doing and non-tribal voters need more than they are currently being offered to persuade them to change their minds

Those who are fervent Corbyn supporters often seem surrounded by people of a similar mindset, hence their deluded view that the media are making up the opinion poll results showing how few people nationally have any faith in Corbyn.

Equally I guess it's fair to say that there are lots of tory supporters who by & large mix with people of a similar view, who all laugh at the idea Corbyn could ever be voted in as PM

[Justayellowbadge]

The bank holidays.

Trident mumbling.

Now calling for a strengthening of the unions.

Short of actually voting Tory on the 9th, he couldn't be doing more for them.

[B'stard Child]

Justayellowbadge said:

The bank holidays.

Trident mumbling.

Now calling for a strengthening of the unions.

Short of actually voting Tory on the 9th, he couldn't be doing more for them.

What - hang on - wait a min - you mean he doesn't vote Tory????

He has no interest in being in power at all - he just wants to be in opposition - it's much easier - no hard decisions, no conflicted options - I'd have thought he would vote Tory every time!!

[Andy Zarse]

JawKnee said:

loafer123 said:

Err...no, the polls are widening.

Mirror link to help assuage your accusations of bias:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/uk-general-e...

Survation poll today slashes the Tories' lead to 11%. Early days but positive signs. If she doesn't increase her majority at the end of this there's going to be major egg on her face.

Hey Jawknee, as our resident Corbynista/Maomentum warrior, you will remember all those "Red Tories" and "Blairite scum" which back in September during Corbyn's re-election campaign your colleagues were telling to "ps off and join the Tories". I just wondered if you could clarify how you'd like these people to vote on 8th June?

[Mothersruin]

B'stard Child said:

Justayellowbadge said:

The bank holidays.

Trident mumbling.

Now calling for a strengthening of the unions.

Short of actually voting Tory on the 9th, he couldn't be doing more for them.

What - hang on - wait a min - you mean he doesn't vote Tory????

He has no interest in being in power at all - he just wants to be in opposition - it's much easier - no hard decisions, no conflicted options - I'd have thought he would vote Tory every time!!

Exactly - he'd be mortified if he had to actually swap his soapbox for No10.

[jonby]

Justayellowbadge said:

Trident mumbling.

I watched the JC interview live - it was painful

I still don't get, in answer to the sub captain questions, why he didn't say 'of course I'll have clear cut instructions in the letters but it would be definition be inappopriate to discuss the contents publicly.

I do wonder if he does this deliberately, to pander to those in his party who lke his stance on nuclear weapons ? there's no other remotely sensible reason for his handling of the questions

[FourWheelDrift]

Jonmx said:

Similar to this bloke...different girlfriend next to him though. The Lib Dems clearly haven't studied and learnt from Miliband's photo 'opportunities'. Not wanting to derail Comrade Corbyn's thread with Dim Farron mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXMapqiDsqs

[bazza white]

He bangs on a lot about being for the working class but i don't think he has made any policies for them/us. £10\hour but by when.

I'm not sure he's woken up to the fact people want job security, workers rights are useless and your claiming JSA and with brexit job security will be on people's minds.

If he just come out with a small increase in NI for all to go towards the NHS he would get far more credibility than saying we will cream it off the rich all the time.

No mention of tax free allowance either. This is what he needs to work on. Getting tax free allowance nearer the living wage\minimum wage would be a winner even if NI was increased (granted NI doesn't go towards NHS currently but should still make health contributions if no tax is paid)

[TLandCruiser]

My Facebook feed has been relatively quiet compared to brexit, a few posts laughing at corblyn, a link to a Yorkshire news outlet voting with emojis about who would you vote for JC or TM and some of the people talking about JC was cringe worthy.

Someone said I'm voting for JC because his policy's will benefit me like minimum wage at £10, free child care, school diners and the bank holidays....it's not even worth engaging with these people talking about how do they expect it to be funded, what do you think companies will do with an increase in salary payments ontop of matching the raised NI contributions, pension contributions, a £10 minimum wage will cost the company far more than £10, not sure the exact amount, anyone?

I imagine an increase in prices and reduction of staff

[Andy Zarse]

JawKnee said:

loafer123 said:

Err...no, the polls are widening.

Mirror link to help assuage your accusations of bias:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/uk-general-e...

Survation poll today slashes the Tories' lead to 11%. Early days but positive signs. If she doesn't increase her majority at the end of this there's going to be major egg on her face.

Oh dear... Tory lead has doubled according to the latest Opinium/Guardian data.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/22/o...

[sidicks]

Andy Zarse said:

Oh dear... Tory lead has doubled according to the latest Opinium/Guardian data.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/22/o...

Fake news!

[bazza white]

Your using the wrong polls.


This morning's poll is a much better representation of the democratic spectrum, well its what being spouted on facebook anyway.

http://www.itv.com/thismorning/hot-topics/poll-who...