Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2
Discussion
NJH said:
As said above as Corbyn is genuine left rather than a nulabor centrist he has an inbuilt distrust and dislike of the EU project, the question therefore is could anyone see him being ousted from within the Labour party on the basis that he isn't pro-EU? I don't see this as remotely possible personally and talk of it is only more desperation from those in his party who never wanted him in the first place.
Politically Labour have played a blinder on the EU this year, say whatever anyone want to hears and offer 0 real policy. The 'outcomes' based position is hilarious, its like saying to your doctor I want the treatment plan please that gives me the best chance of living. Of course you would say that its meaningless management speak for the bleeding obvious.
I think as an opposition party they are quite justified in saying that the govt has committed to getting a wonderful deal (have cake, eat cake etc.. ) & labour will hold them to that promise.Politically Labour have played a blinder on the EU this year, say whatever anyone want to hears and offer 0 real policy. The 'outcomes' based position is hilarious, its like saying to your doctor I want the treatment plan please that gives me the best chance of living. Of course you would say that its meaningless management speak for the bleeding obvious.
It's been good politics to keep a fluid position on the specifics - SM, CU etc..
No I agree it is 'good' politics but it is not remotely credible.
Ultimately one can argue it is doing our negotiations and thus position with the EU enormous damage. They watch our media and what our politicians are doing and saying very closely, and unfortunately all they are hearing is an incoherent mess.
Therefore I personally I believe for an opposition to be credible it has to give the impression of being a credible alternative government. Labour are just not doing this at all in any way, shape or form on this important topic.
Even the Blair position is more credible. We could call him a liar on the specifics but still it is his right to make such claims even if nobody on the 'other' side of the channel is openly stating there is potential for a Europe wide redefinition of freedom of movement to be a freedom of movement of labour system.
Ultimately one can argue it is doing our negotiations and thus position with the EU enormous damage. They watch our media and what our politicians are doing and saying very closely, and unfortunately all they are hearing is an incoherent mess.
Therefore I personally I believe for an opposition to be credible it has to give the impression of being a credible alternative government. Labour are just not doing this at all in any way, shape or form on this important topic.
Even the Blair position is more credible. We could call him a liar on the specifics but still it is his right to make such claims even if nobody on the 'other' side of the channel is openly stating there is potential for a Europe wide redefinition of freedom of movement to be a freedom of movement of labour system.
edh said:
NJH said:
As said above as Corbyn is genuine left rather than a nulabor centrist he has an inbuilt distrust and dislike of the EU project, the question therefore is could anyone see him being ousted from within the Labour party on the basis that he isn't pro-EU? I don't see this as remotely possible personally and talk of it is only more desperation from those in his party who never wanted him in the first place.
Politically Labour have played a blinder on the EU this year, say whatever anyone want to hears and offer 0 real policy. The 'outcomes' based position is hilarious, its like saying to your doctor I want the treatment plan please that gives me the best chance of living. Of course you would say that its meaningless management speak for the bleeding obvious.
I think as an opposition party they are quite justified in saying that the govt has committed to getting a wonderful deal (have cake, eat cake etc.. ) & labour will hold them to that promise.Politically Labour have played a blinder on the EU this year, say whatever anyone want to hears and offer 0 real policy. The 'outcomes' based position is hilarious, its like saying to your doctor I want the treatment plan please that gives me the best chance of living. Of course you would say that its meaningless management speak for the bleeding obvious.
It's been good politics to keep a fluid position on the specifics - SM, CU etc..
Lefties s
te come in and try and sabotage it as much as possible just so they can say.... "You didnt get the best deal for the UK... We told you so"Why not just let the Tories do it and if it's going to f
k up then it will do... At the moment the Tories are not being left to concentrate on it as obviously, the Lefties do not have the interest of the UK population at the forefront of their goals, they would rather sabotage something instead to prove stick it to the Tories, if they would just back off the brexit might go quite well for the UK.Now, At the moment London mayor has stepped in to say they will have another referendum when they get in power to reverse everything.
So they are dictating that they will use "democracy" to get a vote to go against the democratic vote that the UK public already did as its not Labours way.
In what way is that the good for the people or a democracy?
The shining beacon we should emulate as a country..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-4077...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-4077...
Lance Catamaran said:
Corbyn's position on Brexit and the EU has never changed. It's just he did a good job of not talking about it in the election and somehow convinced Remainers he was on their side.
It seems remainers will grasp at anything, even Corbyn, are they not disgusted with themselves?Still refuses to directly condemn the Venezuelan government
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40853378
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40853378
Lance Catamaran said:
Still refuses to directly condemn the Venezuelan government
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40853378
He's a good comrade!http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40853378
Starting to feel a bit sorry for Corbyn over this Venezuela thing. Is Corbyn a hypocrite? Yes. Are the Venezuelan government murdering innocent protesters? Yes. But he's no more hypocritical over Venezuela than May and her government are over Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain etc. Yet rarely do we see those issues covered to the same extent as the current Venezuela one is being covered. I mean are we expected to believe that the tabloids actually give a st about Venezuela and its people? Or are they just doing this to have a dig a Comrade Corbyn?
t about Venezuela and its people? Or are they just doing this to have a dig a Comrade Corbyn?Deptford Draylons said:
Not entirely sure May has been out campaigning for the Saudi model of government to be adopted here as some great beacon of what would be great for the people of the UK.
^ thisWe haven't defended let alone encouraged the expansion of a Saudi style governance so it's not the same thing. Corbyn has previously held Venezuelan socialism up as an example of how it works and practically worshipped the lunatic Chavez and his even less successful successor Maduro in the face of the states collapse and the abuse of its population.
djc206 said:
^ this
We haven't defended let alone encouraged the expansion of a Saudi style governance so it's not the same thing. Corbyn has previously held Venezuelan socialism up as an example of how it works and practically worshipped the lunatic Chavez and his even less successful successor Maduro in the face of the states collapse and the abuse of its population.
When you are a secret fanboy in need of misdirection you have to grasp whatever straws you can.We haven't defended let alone encouraged the expansion of a Saudi style governance so it's not the same thing. Corbyn has previously held Venezuelan socialism up as an example of how it works and practically worshipped the lunatic Chavez and his even less successful successor Maduro in the face of the states collapse and the abuse of its population.
djc206 said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Not entirely sure May has been out campaigning for the Saudi model of government to be adopted here as some great beacon of what would be great for the people of the UK.
^ thisWe haven't defended let alone encouraged the expansion of a Saudi style governance so it's not the same thing. Corbyn has previously held Venezuelan socialism up as an example of how it works and practically worshipped the lunatic Chavez and his even less successful successor Maduro in the face of the states collapse and the abuse of its population.
Deptford Draylons said:
Not entirely sure May has been out campaigning for the Saudi model of government to be adopted here as some great beacon of what would be great for the people of the UK.
Exactly. Corbyn was lining Venezuela up for a bolthole just in case he ever wins power here and is then subsequently found out for the useless piece of s
te that he is. All this exposure of his mates' brutality is embarassing for him.
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