Discussion
Tuna said:
jjlynn27 said:
'winning people over' 
Funny post.
I'll ask the same of you jj, it must be a thankless task hassling people over semantics and dredging up minor points to rubbish the wider conversation. Yet you persist. Why? Funny post.
Do you think you're making a case for Remain? Or teaching those nasty Leavers a lesson?
Furthermore, I doubt that anything that's been posted here changed anyone's mind. It certainly will have no effect on the negotiation, or anything actually happening with Brexit.
As for making the case for Remain; that would be a Sisyphus job. You can't unwind decades of conditioning. I have no idea why would you think that Leavers are nasty? I might try to help some to understand things that they post about, like FDI, while correcting outright lies that they try to pass on as a fact, but that's about it. What a bizarre thing to ask, even allowing for the usual dramatics.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Out of curiosity has anyone on here been asked question about Brexit for a Poll?.
These Polls are just self fulfilling like the guy talking about the Railways. He said if you ask people do you think the Railways should be Nationalised and taken away from the money grabbing private Companies the answer is yes but if you ask them do you think the Railways should be Nationalised so John McDonnel can run them they get a different answer.
I've been contacted once, before ref, it was a very short telephone call, circa duration of when double glazing salesman calls. These Polls are just self fulfilling like the guy talking about the Railways. He said if you ask people do you think the Railways should be Nationalised and taken away from the money grabbing private Companies the answer is yes but if you ask them do you think the Railways should be Nationalised so John McDonnel can run them they get a different answer.
Mrr T said:
jjlynn27 said:
And it's FMoL not FMoP.
Its freedom of movement of people to exercise a treaty right. The last bit is important. You cannot for example move to claim better benefits since benefits are not a treaty right.There never was any need to leave to get better control of scroungers and thugs from the EU. Unfortunately our own government couldn’t be bothered/didn’t want to use the powers they actually had.
Tuna said:
Mario149 said:
Tuna said:
Mario149 said:
Tuna said:
The GE crisis and Chequers both came from advisers who drove ideological ideas through when they needed to be tempered by a bit of reality
Forget the GE and chequers, that's the whole of Brexit as we know it in a nutshell.This is a choice between being a member of the EU - which is an ideological construct, and being independent from that ideology. That doesn't make it good or bad, it's down to how you think a nation state should be run.
The reality is that enough people believe that we can, that we are now negotiating our exit. It's only the ideologues who think that they have a magic crystal ball that gives them 100% certainty of the outcome.
saaby93 said:
V8 Fettler said:
Applying logic to May's recent actions, she can only be a closet, hardline no-dealer.
Appears to offer compromise to both sides (Chequers)
Both sides reject the compromise
The only remaining option is WTO with hard borders
Except for this business of Ireland and UK since 1922 have had just about open borders.Appears to offer compromise to both sides (Chequers)
Both sides reject the compromise
The only remaining option is WTO with hard borders
Ireland Denmark and UK joined the EU on 1st Jan 1973
All in or All out?
V8 Fettler said:
saaby93 said:
V8 Fettler said:
Applying logic to May's recent actions, she can only be a closet, hardline no-dealer.
Appears to offer compromise to both sides (Chequers)
Both sides reject the compromise
The only remaining option is WTO with hard borders
Except for this business of Ireland and UK since 1922 have had just about open borders.Appears to offer compromise to both sides (Chequers)
Both sides reject the compromise
The only remaining option is WTO with hard borders
Ireland Denmark and UK joined the EU on 1st Jan 1973
All in or All out?
Can somebody please remind me, why are we doing this again?
Mario149 said:
I don't think anyone is saying we can't survive. It's not going to be armageddon, we're not totally insane as a country/gov. But when you have people like JRM championing a no-deal economic model as "we'll be fine" which involves unanimously dropping all our tariffs and decimating entire industries,
I think you've fundamentally misunderstood what has been said about 'no deal'.
When I see May only has Hunt speaking out for her it doesn't make her position look particularly strong.
As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
johnxjsc1985 said:
When I see May only has Hunt speaking out for her it doesn't make her position look particularly strong.
As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
IMO Her only way out is to do absolutely nothing from here on in. Literally nothing. No negotiation, no leadership campaign, no snap election, no debates, no legislation, nothing. As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
She's told the EU that she's already conceded as much as she can, that what the EU are currently offering is a bad deal, and that she'd rather leave with no deal than accept what's on the table. If the EU don't crack then no deal it is, I guess.
davepoth said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
When I see May only has Hunt speaking out for her it doesn't make her position look particularly strong.
As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
IMO Her only way out is to do absolutely nothing from here on in. Literally nothing. No negotiation, no leadership campaign, no snap election, no debates, no legislation, nothing. As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
She's told the EU that she's already conceded as much as she can, that what the EU are currently offering is a bad deal, and that she'd rather leave with no deal than accept what's on the table. If the EU don't crack then no deal it is, I guess.
The EU wouldn't accept what many Remainers hoped they would, and the majority of Leavers got the rejection that was expected and wanted.
don'tbesilly said:
davepoth said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
When I see May only has Hunt speaking out for her it doesn't make her position look particularly strong.
As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
IMO Her only way out is to do absolutely nothing from here on in. Literally nothing. No negotiation, no leadership campaign, no snap election, no debates, no legislation, nothing. As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
She's told the EU that she's already conceded as much as she can, that what the EU are currently offering is a bad deal, and that she'd rather leave with no deal than accept what's on the table. If the EU don't crack then no deal it is, I guess.
The EU wouldn't accept what many Remainers hoped they would, and the majority of Leavers got the rejection that was expected and wanted.
don'tbesilly said:
davepoth said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
When I see May only has Hunt speaking out for her it doesn't make her position look particularly strong.
As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
IMO Her only way out is to do absolutely nothing from here on in. Literally nothing. No negotiation, no leadership campaign, no snap election, no debates, no legislation, nothing. As soon as she feels pressure she start to stutter and mumble until she composes herself again. She the whole of the EU against her along with most of the HOC it is quite frankly an impossible task there seems to be no way out for her .
Do we really want another Election with a minority Gov followed by another Referendum which may move slightly to remain but still leave 16 million or more people asking for a "peoples vote".
The architects of this mess are nowhere to be seen Cameron and Osbourne they have so much to answer for and yet they seem totally unfazed by the chaos they have left the Country in
She's told the EU that she's already conceded as much as she can, that what the EU are currently offering is a bad deal, and that she'd rather leave with no deal than accept what's on the table. If the EU don't crack then no deal it is, I guess.
The EU wouldn't accept what many Remainers hoped they would, and the majority of Leavers got the rejection that was expected and wanted.
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