Theresa May

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Mrr T

12,152 posts

264 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Tuna said:
Mrr T said:
Ghibli said:
Agreed, there are none on the books but apparently they will be better than what we already have and going WTO now is better for the country than trading as we are now until we sort ithe border problem that will still be there when we have the unknown trade deals with the rest of the world.

Having an idea of what these deals are would be a better indication of what is best for the country rather than having no plan like we did with the referendum.
Please do not ask. An answer would involve research and planning. Not the posters strong suit.
As it's clear neither of you would dare to read or watch anything that might contradict your delicate sensibilities, why on earth should anyone spend time typing out a response that you're going to ignore?
So we cannot expect a list of countries we are missing out on FTA with. The benefits and the industries they will help. Maybe the list is hidden with the ERG workable plan for brexit?

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
Agreed, there are none on the books but apparently they will be better than what we already have and going WTO now is better for the country than trading as we are now until we sort ithe border problem that will still be there when we have the unknown trade deals with the rest of the world.

Having an idea of what these deals are would be a better indication of what is best for the country rather than having no plan like we did with the referendum.
Rees-Mogg said the other day that the UK will immediately thrive under WTO with a no deal brexit.

So I don't know what you are fretting about.

tongue out

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Tuna said:
As it's clear neither of you would dare to read or watch anything that might contradict your delicate sensibilities, why on earth should anyone spend time typing out a response that you're going to ignore?

Ghibli's tactic is used by primary school kids, "But why?" to every answer - they're not interested in the answers, just provoking more responses.

Edited by Tuna on Saturday 17th November 13:09
Nice trolling Tuna.

Should I report you?

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Rees-Mogg said the other day that the UK will immediately thrive under WTO with a no deal brexit.

So I don't know what you are fretting about.

tongue out
He must have forgotten that we are leaving to get FTA with the rest of the world, why would we want FTA when we can have WTO which is best for the country. smile



Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
Tuna said:
As it's clear neither of you would dare to read or watch anything that might contradict your delicate sensibilities, why on earth should anyone spend time typing out a response that you're going to ignore?

Ghibli's tactic is used by primary school kids, "But why?" to every answer - they're not interested in the answers, just provoking more responses.

Edited by Tuna on Saturday 17th November 13:09
Nice trolling Tuna.

Should I report you?
"But why?" biggrin

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
He must have forgotten that we are leaving to get FTA with the rest of the world, why would we want FTA when we can have WTO which is best for the country. smile
He didn't say it was best, just that we would thrive.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
He didn't say it was best, just that we would thrive.
It's amazing how we will thrive with all the WTO countries that we already trade with under WTO. I guess like all of these fantastic new trade deal we will be getting,they will lower their tarriffs to accommodate us in leaving the EU and buy all the unknown products that the EU currently stop us selling them.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
Ghibli said:
Agreed, there are none on the books but apparently they will be better than what we already have and going WTO now is better for the country than trading as we are now until we sort ithe border problem that will still be there when we have the unknown trade deals with the rest of the world.

Having an idea of what these deals are would be a better indication of what is best for the country rather than having no plan like we did with the referendum.
Please do not ask. An answer would involve research and planning. Not the posters strong suit.
There is no border issue. It's a political "issue"/football. That much has been ascertained over the last few months.

We are not able to craft trade deals until we leave. Whether they will be beneficial to the country remains to be seen and will depend on the quality of the people doing them. Ask yourself - do we think the EU is full of high quality people in this respect, and the relatively few trade deals they have done had the UK's interests front and centre?

We also must be cognisant of the proportion of our trade that is with the EU, and where the trend is going for that. Targets for improved trading conditions? Every country in the world less (possibly) the 27 other EU member states...

The reason jsf posted the link he did, as you both know as neither of you are as stupid as some of the other dolts posting on here, is that the Australians were in a similar boat ref trade when we joined the EU (safety blanket tugged, step into the unknown, fear about the future). It didn't work out too badly for them in the end. There are other "experiments" with trade and economics that worked out well despite not exactly following EU doctrine (NZ farming and agriculture as one).

Do we categorically know that we will be better off due to being able to craft our own trade deals and control our own related policies? Nope. But then we don't know categorically that staying in is better. The problem is that many people only have experience of the comfort blanket that they have grown up around, and seem very happy to continue sleepwalking in the same direction (some because their current positions are directly dependent on it, others because they simply put the pieces together in a different way to those who voted opposite, some because they aren't prepared to look at the wider data).

We have been in the current experiment for over 40yrs. The political strings added for 25yrs. And nobody can say with any surety that being part of that experiment has been a roaring success. Indeed, it's fair to say that a sizeable majority are unhappy with it to one extent or other (from those wanting to change from within to those who want to leave the EU no matter what - that's way more than 52% of people). Persisting with it is as "hopeful" as leaving it. But at least in the latter our destiny is in our own hands without having to think too hard about 27 other nations, each with different histories and objectives.

Ultimately the choice is a philosophical one. You either want more layers of government to be part of a larger mass, or you don't.

Mrr T

12,152 posts

264 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
He didn't say it was best, just that we would thrive.
It's amazing how we will thrive with all the WTO countries that we already trade with under WTO. I guess like all of these fantastic new trade deal we will be getting they will lower their tarriffs to accommodate us in leaving the EU and buy all the unknown products that the EU currently stop us selling them.
This is all covered by the team leave plans. The only problem is they all have different plans and none of them work!!

I want a referendum forcing the government to create unicorns. I can then have a thread on PH where I can complain every day the government is not giving me the unicorns I want.


Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
Ghibli said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
He didn't say it was best, just that we would thrive.
It's amazing how we will thrive with all the WTO countries that we already trade with under WTO. I guess like all of these fantastic new trade deal we will be getting they will lower their tarriffs to accommodate us in leaving the EU and buy all the unknown products that the EU currently stop us selling them.
This is all covered by the team leave plans. The only problem is they all have different plans and none of them work!!

I want a referendum forcing the government to create unicorns. I can then have a thread on PH where I can complain every day the government is not giving me the unicorns I want.
It’s almost as if they didn’t know what they were voting for, isn’t it?

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
This is all covered by the team leave plans. The only problem is they all have different plans and none of them work!!

I want a referendum forcing the government to create unicorns. I can then have a thread on PH where I can complain every day the government is not giving me the unicorns I want.
Why do you need another thread where all you do is complain every day?

Mrr T

12,152 posts

264 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
A lot.

Hope it's ok I edited your post for readability of the tread.

My position is influenced by my work. We as a business do little without extensive planning and research. We prepare business plans, budgets, contingency plans, issues logs. This will include estimates based on extensive and often expensive research. Even after all the planning its often plans get cancelled because they just do not work.

As I have always said I would have voted leave if the leave plan was EFTA/EEA plus a customs arrangement. This would have given the UK many benefits with little downside. I never cared about EU imigration. The UK could then have looked at the costs and benefits of leaving the CU and/or the SM.

Basing your plans on a "it will be alright on the night" philosophy is not, in my view, a good idea. Remember the 6 P's.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
Basing your plans on a "it will be alright on the night" philosophy is not, in my view, a good idea. Remember the 6 P's.
It's certainly a risk/reward thing, and it's clear different posters on here have different backgrounds and tolerances in that regard. There's a reason Agile is seen as a big step in the tech sector - we've spend decades trying to do the 6 P's thing and discovered time and time again that it hits a brick wall within the moments of starting a big project. The Unknown unknowns get you every single time.

In that context, I can't help seeing the whole of Brexit as one big unknown unknown. Could you have 6 P'd your way through the twists and turns of this week? That's just a microcosm of the whole of Brexit. A couple of days of uncertainty and we have an entirely new Cabinet, Great.

And in my line of business, that's fine. You do what you can to minimise risks, of course, and you scan for the big things that can derail you. But more than anything you make sure you have the flexibility to react when circumstances or assumptions change.

This is the biggest objection I have to the current withdrawal arrangement - no room for flexibilty, no ability to set our own course. And so with Brexit as a whole - you know I've called for the freedom to make our own trade deals, set our own tariffs, decide our own regulations. None of that prevents us selling to countries with wildly different regimes, but it does give us the control to ride what is undoubtedly a difficult path. I can't see 6 P's getting us past the first bend.

The thing is - in all of this, no-one has come up with a concrete risk for leaving. By that I mean there's lots of fear, uncertainty and doubt, but when you drill down it's always "we might loose a single digit percentage of X". There are still people who talk as though leaving will bring all trade to a halt. It won't. Yes, for sure that's risk, but it's no more risk than currency fluctuations, trade wars, real wars, changes in government and all the other **** that hits the fan that you can't plan or predict, but have to react to.

Mrr T

12,152 posts

264 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Tuna said:
It's certainly a risk/reward thing, and it's clear different posters on here have different backgrounds and tolerances in that regard. There's a reason Agile is seen as a big step in the tech sector - we've spend decades trying to do the 6 P's thing and discovered time and time again that it hits a brick wall within the moments of starting a big project. The Unknown unknowns get you every single time.
I work in an environment which is highly unregulated, international implications, and very legal influenced. They are trying to introduce agile. The trainer came in to assist with project planning it was a joke. They took a project which required multiple deliverables. The first idea was to break the deliverable down and deliver seperatly. Great idea but the deliverable are not saleable individualy. His next idea was to approach a client to trial a deliverable. I suggested it was best to understand the regulatory environment so as to ensure the client could legally use the product. He was confused. We ended up with sprints and lots of scrums but little progress. Adgile may have its uses but not in my world.

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Cobnapint said:
The leader is undermining her own manifesto. And Brexit.

She is the one doing the stabbing.
What part(s) of the manifesto is she undermining?
'Theresa May's Conservatives will deliver the best possible deal for Britain as we leave the EU, delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit'.

Fail

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Cobnapint said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Cobnapint said:
The leader is undermining her own manifesto. And Brexit.

She is the one doing the stabbing.
What part(s) of the manifesto is she undermining?
'Theresa May's Conservatives will deliver the best possible deal for Britain as we leave the EU, delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit'.
That does seem to be whats on the table.. Just get on with it shout

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Cobnapint said:
'Theresa May's Conservatives will deliver the best possible deal for Britain as we leave the EU, delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit'.

Fail
How do you know it's not the best possible deal?

As for smooth and orderly, well you got me there.

biggrin

B'stard Child

28,324 posts

245 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
May appoints disgraced lying Amber Rudd as Work and Pensions Secretary.

Anyone that supports her cause I guess.

rolleyes
She's got the same problem as Corbyn running out of MP's biggrin

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
I work in an environment which is highly unregulated
No you don't.

None of us do either.

Mrr T

12,152 posts

264 months

Saturday 17th November 2018
quotequote all
jsf said:
Mrr T said:
I work in an environment which is highly unregulated
No you don't.

None of us do either.
laugh

I was going to day I wish I did but then I might not have a job.
smile
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