White Flight and failing Integration

[Alpinestars]

The Dangerous Elk said:

Alpinestars said:

an obsession with immigrants and Muslims.

Or, concerned due to the massive effects on the social cohesion of society by the enclaves and oppressive nature of said changes ?

But do not let a good cry of "Racist" get in your way.

If you rearrange some of the letters I used in that edited version you've quoted, you nearly get the word racist. But you'll no doubt have noted that I didn't type the word.

[Robertj21a]

I think that's been a trend out of London for many decades anyway.

[sugerbear]

JagLover said:

Blackburn is an extreme example, but London is seeing quite an exodus these past few years with UK citizens getting out, but the population still growing due to births and migration from overseas.

Which has been going on since the Huguenots descended on Spittlefields.

Bloody protestants coming over here with their money and their weaving skills taking all our wattle and daub shacks.

[JagLover]

Robertj21a said:

I think that's been a trend out of London for many decades anyway.

Picked up a bit recently

From memory about 1/2 million left between 2001 and 2011. Last year it was over 90,000 in one year.

London is often held up as a shining example of how the rest of the UK should be. The people living there seem to be opting for a different lifestyle in rising numbers.

[anonymous-user]

sugerbear said:

JagLover said:

Blackburn is an extreme example, but London is seeing quite an exodus these past few years with UK citizens getting out, but the population still growing due to births and migration from overseas.

Which has been going on since the Huguenots descended on Spittlefields.

Bloody protestants coming over here with their money and their weaving skills taking all our wattle and daub shacks.

That’s it. Deny it’s all happening. Doesn’t the sand get under your eyelids?

Telegraph:

“London, whose white British population has declined by 600,000 in the 10 years between the last two census surveys. “White British” (as opposed to Eastern European) citizens now make up less than half of London’s population. This is a change of profound significance, by any historical benchmark”.

[Mothersruin]

JagLover said:

Robertj21a said:

I think that's been a trend out of London for many decades anyway.

Picked up a bit recently

From memory about 1/2 million left between 2001 and 2011. Last year it was over 90,000 in one year.

London is often held up as a shining example of how the rest of the UK should be. The people living there seem to be opting for a different lifestyle in rising numbers.

London is the least reflective city of the UK imo. It's an international entity of it's own.

[JagLover]

Mothersruin said:

London is the least reflective city of the UK imo. It's an international entity of it's own.

Which I am fine with as it allows the rest of the UK to go to work in, train in, or enjoy the culture of, a world city.

What I'm not fine with is imposing the "London Model" on the rest of the UK, as most of us are quite happy living in the UK.

[del mar]

Alpinestars said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

Alpinestars said:

an obsession with immigrants and Muslims.

Or, concerned due to the massive effects on the social cohesion of society by the enclaves and oppressive nature of said changes ?

But do not let a good cry of "Racist" get in your way.

If you rearrange some of the letters I used in that edited version you've quoted, you nearly get the word racist. But you'll no doubt have noted that I didn't type the word.

There was no "c".

[vonuber]

Um most people are moving out because housing is so expensive and they want to buy one, not because of scary muslims.

[Roofless Toothless]

I don't know much about the social history of other towns, but in London the areas with large immigrant communities have often been the focus of immigration in the past.

My mother's parents ended up in Brick Lane before WW1 when it was home to a large Jewish population. (Before them it was the Huguenots, or whoever.) Over time, and with another generation, people moved out to leafier areas - Stamford Hill, Gants Hill, Chigwell - depending on how well you were doing. I am of the third generation and have gone even further away from London, as have most of my cousins.

Perhaps certain inner city areas will never be integrated as such, as they are the first port of call for successive waves of incomers. Integration comes later as following generations move out and disperse.

[Mothersruin]

JagLover said:

Mothersruin said:

London is the least reflective city of the UK imo. It's an international entity of it's own.

Which I am fine with as it allows the rest of the UK to go to work in, train in, or enjoy the culture of, a world city.

What I'm not fine with is imposing the "London Model" on the rest of the UK, as most of us are quite happy living in the UK.

Absolutely.

[Alpinestars]

del mar said:

Alpinestars said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

Alpinestars said:

an obsession with immigrants and Muslims.

Or, concerned due to the massive effects on the social cohesion of society by the enclaves and oppressive nature of said changes ?

But do not let a good cry of "Racist" get in your way.

If you rearrange some of the letters I used in that edited version you've quoted, you nearly get the word racist. But you'll no doubt have noted that I didn't type the word.

There was no "c".

Genius. Hence the word "nearly".

[2xChevrons]

jogger1976 said:

Having had the misfortune to grow up in the multicultural sthole that is Peterborough, I can say that multiculturalism does not, and never will work.
The city was divided into very distinct sections: white British working class, which was me,long term Pakistani immigrants, Italians who had come over after the war and various enclaves of Eastern European workers
In my experience,if you were a Pakistani you would never ever enter the white British council estates and vice versa and the Eastern Europeans were massively resented by pretty much all, despite being decent, hardworking people.

I went back to visit last year and It's even more divided than ever since Brexit

That's funny because I (white chap with a poncy RP southern English accent) have been here six years and lived in Woodston/New Fletton (where all the cars have Italian flags), Millfield (just off Lincoln Road in the shadow of the mosque), Eastfield Road (in a houseshare with a load of Eastern Europeans) and now I'm in Old Fletton which is 80% 'white British.' Everyone seems to get along fine and the most 'anti-social' behavior I've had has been people dumping litter in my front yard in Old Fletton on their way back from the football stadium.

Perhaps if you were Asian and went to Bretton or Orton Goldhay you'd be on the receiving end of some of good old native British 'charm' but even that's a social-economic problem caused by bad town planning. And maybe it used to be worse or I'm not seeing the 'exciting' bits of P'boro.

[Alpinestars]

Roofless Toothless said:

I don't know much about the social history of other towns, but in London the areas with large immigrant communities have often been the focus of immigration in the past.

My mother's parents ended up in Brick Lane before WW1 when it was home to a large Jewish population. (Before them it was the Huguenots, or whoever.) Over time, and with another generation, people moved out to leafier areas - Stamford Hill, Gants Hill, Chigwell - depending on how well you were doing. I am of the third generation and have gone even further away from London, as have most of my cousins.

Perhaps certain inner city areas will never be integrated as such, as they are the first port of call for successive waves of incomers. Integration comes later as following generations move out and disperse.

The intersting point is the East End and other less affluent parts of London, were the destination for immigrants, Jews, Bengalis, etc etc. As those immigrants improved their lot, they moved out a bit to the nicer parts of London, allowing the next influx of migrants. However, now that Brick Lane et al has seen huge rises in property prices, as the current residents cash out, will we see more affluent people (probably non first generation immigrants) moving in?

[PostHeads123]

I'm in London and moved and it could be deemed to be 'white flight' even the estate agent called it that, we moved not because we didn't like our neighbours, we moved mainly because of the building work that came with it and primarily the requirement to build a garden outbuilding that took up most of the garden and the desire to totally pave over a garden, we went from looking out on to nice gardens to a mini concrete village in the garden. I don't care what people do on there own property but if I don't like it I will move.

[crankedup]

What exactly is integration, I mean if/when a town has become integrated how is that identified as such?

[amusingduck]

crankedup said:

What exactly is integration, I mean if/when a town has become integrated how is that identified as such?

Good question.

I'm not sure what the answer is. Absence of segregation is probably a good starting point?

[Alpinestars]

crankedup said:

What exactly is integration, I mean if/when a town has become integrated how is that identified as such?

I'd say school demograhics and geographical location of different types of people is a start.

[KarlMac]

I’ll put my neck in a noose, but there is one specific culture that (from my own experience) has absolutely no issue with segregation and thrives in ghettos.

My fathers side of the family came from the tougher parts of Sheffield as Irish migrants, my dad was born in Ireland but came across at a very, very young age. They ‘integrated’ found jobs, made friends, all the usual stuff, she was a devout Catholic but went about her business quietly.

Fast forward to her later years, she’s still living in the family home she has for decades in an area called Darnall. It’s nothing flash, but the area is now almost wholly Pakistani Muslim. What she was subjected has forever formed my opinion of this group and is why I have the current belief that I’d be quite happy to see them put on a boat and sunk in the Atlantic.

Physical violence, intimidation, posting dog st and fireworks through the letterbox, killing her cat and leaving it on the doorstep, smashing windows, chasing away friends that come to visit. I had “innits” try to stop me getting out of the car on several occasions when I went to visit. When I was at school the lads would take it turns to try and give me a pasting.

They hounded her until the day she died, and carried on hounded my grandad until he died too. They eventually got the house. We couldn’t sell it to anyone else cause of the absolute sthole the area had become.

However, skip across town to London road and you’ll see Chinese, Thai, Indian, Bangladeshi, African etc... all living in a socialist multi-cultural utopia. It’s great.

Multi-culturalism does work, just not with that specific culture, and there’s nothing the champagne socialists of PH can say to change my mind.

[sugerbear]

REALIST123 said:

sugerbear said:

JagLover said:

Blackburn is an extreme example, but London is seeing quite an exodus these past few years with UK citizens getting out, but the population still growing due to births and migration from overseas.

Which has been going on since the Huguenots descended on Spittlefields.

Bloody protestants coming over here with their money and their weaving skills taking all our wattle and daub shacks.

That’s it. Deny it’s all happening. Doesn’t the sand get under your eyelids?

Telegraph:

“London, whose white British population has declined by 600,000 in the 10 years between the last two census surveys. “White British” (as opposed to Eastern European) citizens now make up less than half of London’s population. This is a change of profound significance, by any historical benchmark”.

I was born in Leyton and lived there until my early twenties. My parents in Hackney and Shoreditch. My parents were working class but I am certainly not. They wanted us to do well and better ourselves. They didn't live in a council house even though their parents did.

There were two types of people that I found when I was growing up. Those that that wanted to do well and get out as quickly as possible and the idiots that dicked around at school and ended up in a factory making stuff for minimal wage. The latter are still there moaning that all the whites have moved out. They went North to the suburbs.

It isn't a problem because no one wants to move to the cheap parts of London. There are much nicer parts of the country to live in.