Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[anonymous-user]

KrissKross said:

Ok, I will have a go, let's use an example of something I am looking to purchase at the moment.

I was going to upgrade my business phone account to Galaxy S8 handsets, however, the S9 comes out in a month so I might now wait.

I am not fussed about an Apple phone or other brands to the Samsung is the one I will purchase.

I haven't yet found any Greek, Polish or African handsets that I like the look of, maybe in a few years that might change?

Does this example help you?

Ok, let's start at the very bottom of the pile. You will be sending your money to another part of the world along with many others (obviously not directly). What will we be selling to the rest of the world to off set the balance of trade.

Would it be the EU's fault if we had a trade deficit?

[Toaster]

Dr Jekyll said:

Given that the EU doesn't have a trade deal with China at all it shouldn't be difficult.

Depend on what you mean by a trade deal:

"The European Union and China are two of the biggest traders in the world. China is now the EU's second-biggest trading partner behind the United States and the EU is China's biggest trading partner.

The EU is committed to open trading relations with China. However, the EU wants to ensure that China trades fairly, respects intellectual property rights and meets its obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO)."

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-reg...

[Dr Jekyll]

Toaster said:

Depend on what you mean by a trade deal:

"The European Union and China are two of the biggest traders in the world. China is now the EU's second-biggest trading partner behind the United States and the EU is China's biggest trading partner.

The EU is committed to open trading relations with China. However, the EU wants to ensure that China trades fairly, respects intellectual property rights and meets its obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO)."

In other words, the EU and China have no trade deal, no 'depends what you mean by..' about it.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-reg...

[Murph7355]

Coolbanana said:

...
Getting a Trade deal shouldn't be too difficult for Liam. However, getting one that is actually better for the UK overall is slightly trickier...or does that not actually matter? Because Blue Passports?

Hey, good for Liam and the UK if a better deal is reached. Hope it is.

Fox is a prat, but only a transient incumbent in that seat. We can vote for better.

The issue the EU has is that it must accommodate the wants, desires and foibles of 28 (soon to be 27) nations. It doesn't take much bottom lippery from any one of those (including us ) to scupper a deal.

It may be that some of the items being insisted upon by, say, France are not a big deal for us (and no I'm not suggesting we put RoW in slavery to meet our needs before any of the usual hyperbole-meisters thumps his keyboard...). Hence we may be able to cut deals that are "good" for us but that wouldn't be "good" for the EU. One size does not fit all.

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes (and Fox is still a prat). But the potential is there. During our 44yrs in the EU the constraints have only become "worse" - more, and more varied people that must be pleased/appeased.

Trade deals are not inherently difficult to agree. But the EU takes a very long time, typically, to sort anything. Why?

[Zigster]

Dr Jekyll said:

Toaster said:

Depend on what you mean by a trade deal:

"The European Union and China are two of the biggest traders in the world. China is now the EU's second-biggest trading partner behind the United States and the EU is China's biggest trading partner.

The EU is committed to open trading relations with China. However, the EU wants to ensure that China trades fairly, respects intellectual property rights and meets its obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO)."

In other words, the EU and China have no trade deal, no 'depends what you mean by..' about it.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-reg...

So post Brexit the UK can negotiate a trade deal with China direct by not worrying about such things as China trading fairly, respecting intellectual property rights and meeting its obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization?

Fantastic. No flaws in that plan that I can see. More cheap Chinese stuff for all of us.

[Dr Jekyll]

Zigster said:

So post Brexit the UK can negotiate a trade deal with China direct by not worrying about such things as China trading fairly, respecting intellectual property rights and meeting its obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization?

Fantastic. No flaws in that plan that I can see. More cheap Chinese stuff for all of us.

No, we can have a trade deal taking all those factors into account.

[mx5nut]

Zigster said:

So post Brexit the UK can negotiate a trade deal with China direct by not worrying about such things as China trading fairly, respecting intellectual property rights and meeting its obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization?

Fantastic. No flaws in that plan that I can see. More cheap Chinese stuff for all of us.

We'll make sure to have the "bonfire of health & safety regulations" first of course.

[KrissKross]

The UK should not negotiate any trade deals with China, if anything it should tax its imports through the roof or ban certain imports altogether.

And I am saying this as a person who ran a business for several years in China.

Edited by KrissKross on Tuesday 16th January 15:13

[KrissKross]

Ghibli said:

KrissKross said:

Ok, I will have a go, let's use an example of something I am looking to purchase at the moment.

I was going to upgrade my business phone account to Galaxy S8 handsets, however, the S9 comes out in a month so I might now wait.

I am not fussed about an Apple phone or other brands to the Samsung is the one I will purchase.

I haven't yet found any Greek, Polish or African handsets that I like the look of, maybe in a few years that might change?

Does this example help you?

Ok, let's start at the very bottom of the pile. You will be sending your money to another part of the world along with many others (obviously not directly). What will we be selling to the rest of the world to off set the balance of trade.

Would it be the EU's fault if we had a trade deficit?

My point was really about consumer choice, people buy things from a business because they have done their jobs well, good marketing and such like. The EU is totally irrelevant, get rid of it completely and this does not change.

o/t We should be massively pushing and encouraging home-grown innovation and manufacture so we can export products like this, not import.

[B'stard Child]

Coolbanana said:

B'stard Child said:

We will stil get a Brexit - the hard and soft terminology is meaningless

Is it really though? From someone who claims to have had 273 reasons to Leave, you find the difference between the so-called 'hard' and 'soft' Brexits to be "meaningless"? No major difference for you? Interesting.

Why bother with a Pro's and Con's List at all then if all you care about is a 'Brexit, any Brexit will do' approach? You just want away from the horrible EU Oppressor Empire Thingy and that is all?

A 'soft' Brexit aligning you to much the same as we have now - a Norway or Canada-type solution - is A-OK so long as it means you have technically 'Left'?

Or a 'hard' Brexit is A-OK because you have Faith in the Great Gamble of Great Britain?

Both equally good for you? Ok.

You wanted to know about my 'List'? Prior to the Referendum, I enjoyed the benefits of being in the EU but hadn't put a huge effort into understanding the Relationship over the past 40 years much. That changed. I took an interest in learning about its History, what it has achieved, how it has affected the UK. I learnt about how it is Represented by each Member, how they elect Democratically the Leaders. I looked at their Vision, weighed their likelihood of succeeding.

I established a Pro's and Con's List - nothing written down, I could do it in my head - of the Major aspects that influence me; Immigration, Legislation, Sovereignty, the 4 Freedoms...I debated the overall effects of each, the 'give and take' etc.

I came to a conclusion. I would like to Remain. I then discussed it with Family (my Dad, who hasn't lived in the UK for over 30 years is a Leaver, bless his socks), friends, colleagues, people I met randomly. I read and listened to the Campaigns for either side (both very badly run, utterly disgraceful and no less demeaning for the UK than Trump is for the USA).

The conclusion I came to earlier was unchanged.

That's how I arrived at my decision. I didn't have a list that included: Blue Passports! Hate that Nasty Dictator, Juncker! Think the Fishing Industry is being screwed over! (while ignoring everything else...) Blue Passports! Prefer Skegness to Benidorm Anyway! Europe is Foreign! Don't like the Polish man down the road! Too many Foreigners in the Hospitals! Don't want the Euro! Scared of an EU Army idea cos they might invade and the Americans might not save us again! £250 million quids for the NHS! Boris is my Hero! Cameron is too Snowflakey! Gove is so honest! Farage, you God, you!

Haha, I could go on, I can see how easy it is to get to 273...

Only having fun mate, please take the above in jest, I'm sure you had many genuinely good reasons applicable to you and yours

On another note...see the Leaver's Leader ( not their God ) is bringing up the infamous Bus 'that never swayed anyone because everyone knew it wasn't true and it didn't influence any votes, at least significantly' again. Wonder who he is appealing to if it is 'obvious' that it won't be believed as wholly true by a sizable Voting sector? Brexit is fun.

Good post enjoyed that - thought provoking with the right balance between piss taking with a cheeky wink and being honest regarding the decision making process you went thro

To respond to your comments verses Hard and Soft being meaningless it is - we are in the middle of the negotiations the pantomime dames are on stage and to be honest no one really has a clue where it will end up - my gut feel is the negotiations will break down and it'll all get a bit torrid and we'll just get Brexit (that's probably your hard brexit but it'll just be Brexit to me) However you may be right and negotiations will be amicable and some short term transitional arrangements with a full leave date set for 2021 may be the outcome and we'll get Brexit (that's probably your soft but it'll just be Brexit to me)

[Mr2Mike]

Zigster said:

So post Brexit the UK can negotiate a trade deal with China direct by not worrying about such things as China trading fairly, respecting intellectual property rights and meeting its obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization?

Fantastic. No flaws in that plan that I can see. More cheap Chinese stuff for all of us.

So what's the difference between that scenario and what's happening right now?

[SpeckledJim]

KrissKross said:

The UK should not negotiate any trade deals with China, if anything it should tax its imports through the roof or ban certain imports altogether.

And I am saying this as a person who ran a business for several years in China.

Edited by KrissKross on Tuesday 16th January 15:13

Given our specialism and expertise in short-run, high-quality, high-tech, individual stuff, and in luxury and prestige goods, I'd have thought a trade deal with China could be very very good news for British exports?

It's not as if our economies and outputs are going head-to-head on a lot of things, we each have somewhat complementary talents, no?

[barryrs]

Ghibli said:

KrissKross said:

Ok, I will have a go, let's use an example of something I am looking to purchase at the moment.

I was going to upgrade my business phone account to Galaxy S8 handsets, however, the S9 comes out in a month so I might now wait.

I am not fussed about an Apple phone or other brands to the Samsung is the one I will purchase.

I haven't yet found any Greek, Polish or African handsets that I like the look of, maybe in a few years that might change?

Does this example help you?

Ok, let's start at the very bottom of the pile. You will be sending your money to another part of the world along with many others (obviously not directly). What will we be selling to the rest of the world to off set the balance of trade.

Would it be the EU's fault if we had a trade deficit?

Sticking with the smartphone theme.

Dont Samsung use chips designed by Arm Holdings?

Now owned by Softbank but generates a huge amount of income thats spent in the UK.

[mx5nut]

Rule one of Brexit club - It's always somebody else's fault if things are going badly. Never that of the people leading the charge.

[andymadmak]

mx5nut said:

Rule one of Brexit club - It's always somebody else's fault if things are going badly. Never that of the people leading the charge.

Rule one of Remain club - when called out on your efforts to sabotage the Brexit process claim wide eyed innocence and insinuate that it's all in the minds of Brexiteers.

[dromong]

mx5nut said:

Rule one of Brexit club - It's always somebody else's fault if things are going badly. Never that of the people leading the charge.

Do you never get bored posting constant guff all day?. Why not go play in your MX5 or get some rust treatment into its rear arches?, If you actually have one , or maybe do something else constructive, maybe even get some exercise to relieve your flattened buttocks, If that is beyond your capability then ever thought about posting something worthwhile?.

[andymadmak]

dro said:

mx5nut said:

Rule one of Brexit club - It's always somebody else's fault if things are going badly. Never that of the people leading the charge.

Do you never get bored posting constant guff all day?. Why not go play in your Peugeot Bipper or get some rust treatment into its rear arches?, If you actually have one , or maybe do something else constructive, maybe even get some exercise to relieve your flattened buttocks, If that is beyond your capability then ever thought about posting something worthwhile?.

Fixed that one for you!

[mx5nut]

What's the solution to these traitorous unelected bureaucratic civil servants who just aren't being patriotic enough to make the impossible possible?

[anonymous-user]

dro said:

Do you never get bored posting constant guff all day?. Why not go play in your MX5 or get some rust treatment into its rear arches?, If you actually have one , or maybe do something else constructive, maybe even get some exercise to relieve your flattened buttocks, If that is beyond your capability then ever thought about posting something worthwhile?.

Do you ever get bored of posting the same thing?

[andymadmak]

mx5nut said:

What's the solution to these traitorous unelected bureaucratic civil servants who just aren't being patriotic enough to make the impossible possible?

You do pick some silly words. Traitorous? Patriotic?

Their line managers just need to remind them that their obligation is to follow the instructions given to them, and not to pursue their own private agendas. I am sure the civil service will ultimately remember that they are employed by the British people, not Brussels.

Impossible? Never say never. After all, you find new ways every day to make yourself look even more silly, despite most of us thinking that that would be impossible