EU army

Author
Discussion

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
I think you are missing the nuances of EU politics.

They want to get rid of the emergency restrictions, so they agree to an emergency brake, but that emergency brake is never, ever intended to be pulled.
Lol. More tinfoil garbage from the bloke who thinks that BBC hides stuff on the front page.

Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
tescorank said:
...
France and Germany are demanding the right to suspend the European Union’s passport-free travel zone for up to four years at times of crisis amid fears over terrorism and migration.
...
Why do they time box these things in their proposals?

Do they have intel' that notes these waves only last 4yrs? Or that the max memory span of your average jihadi is 4yrs and the day after the time limit has expired they'll have forgotten what they came for?

Also, where are all the Remain proponents telling us how impossible it would be to reinstate border checks now that they've all been disbanded. It would surely take years to get them back up and running, cost billions and see us all economically doomed.

smile

I'm sure the external border states will be totally over the moon with these proposals (that will presumably end up a QMV issue smile).

And who pulls the brake? Merkel? Juncker? Anyone?

As "One EU" wouldn't it have made far more sense to focus efforts and policy on the external border areas and general policy tightening? Otherwise doesn't it totally undermine the desirability of Schengen and FoM?

Petards at the ready.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
loafer123 said:
I think you are missing the nuances of EU politics.

They want to get rid of the emergency restrictions, so they agree to an emergency brake, but that emergency brake is never, ever intended to be pulled.
Lol. More tinfoil garbage from the bloke who thinks that BBC hides stuff on the front page.
Nick Clegg had a similar attitude to you, on this matter, and it's turning out he was wrong.

SantaBarbara

3,244 posts

107 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
I can see the recruitment posters now.

Your Continent needs you

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
vice president of the eu commission said:
We're building the European Union of security and defence. It's not a plan anymore. It's not a dream anymore. It's reality coming true. The dream of our founding mothers and fathers is finally coming true.
Link



Fat Fairy

503 posts

185 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
vice president of the eu commission said:
We're building the European Union of security and defence. It's not a plan anymore. It's not a dream anymore. It's reality coming true. The dream of our founding mothers and fathers is finally coming true.
Link
What could possibly go wrong.....?

FF

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
vice president of the eu commission said:
We're building the European Union of security and defence. It's not a plan anymore. It's not a dream anymore. It's reality coming true. The dream of our founding mothers and fathers is finally coming true.
Link
And another video showing where the efforts are going.

Link

Not exactly an army, is it?

Hayek

8,969 posts

207 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Are they going to use this European defence force to stop people crossing the Med?

Mark Benson

7,498 posts

268 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
You have to wonder why an organisation that purports to be no more than a benign trading bloc requires its own military capability......

Hayek

8,969 posts

207 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Mark Benson said:
You have to wonder why an organisation that purports to be no more than a benign trading bloc requires its own military capability......
I tend to find that on the continent they're rather more honest about their ambitions. It's the pro-EU crowd here that know that these ambitions are unpopular that claim it's just a 'trading bloc'. They do a good enough job of it that if you repeat the kinds of things they say in Brussels you get treated as some kind of whack-job conspiracy theorist (see Farage vs Clegg on the EU army).

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Mark Benson said:
You have to wonder why an organisation that purports to be no more than a benign trading bloc requires its own military capability......
'No more than a benign trading bloc' wouldn't require many things, like h2020 or EMA or Euratom or many other things.

It's quite clearly lot more than 'trading bloc'. There is no conspiracy to hide that. Unless you are a nutjob conditioned by Breitbart and Infowars.


Mark Benson

7,498 posts

268 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
Mark Benson said:
You have to wonder why an organisation that purports to be no more than a benign trading bloc requires its own military capability......
'No more than a benign trading bloc' wouldn't require many things, like h2020 or EMA or Euratom or many other things.

It's quite clearly lot more than 'trading bloc'. There is no conspiracy to hide that. Unless you are a nutjob conditioned by Breitbart and Infowars.
Yes, you got me there, I'm a nutjob. Christ you're tedious.


Funkycoldribena

7,379 posts

153 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
'No more than a benign trading bloc' wouldn't require many things, like h2020 or EMA or Euratom or many other things.

It's quite clearly lot more than 'trading bloc'. There is no conspiracy to hide that. Unless you are a nutjob conditioned by Breitbart and Infowars.
Has it ever slightly occurred to you,you might be a bit of a nutjob yourself? Just a teensy bit?

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Mark Benson said:
jjlynn27 said:
Mark Benson said:
You have to wonder why an organisation that purports to be no more than a benign trading bloc requires its own military capability......
'No more than a benign trading bloc' wouldn't require many things, like h2020 or EMA or Euratom or many other things.

It's quite clearly lot more than 'trading bloc'. There is no conspiracy to hide that. Unless you are a nutjob conditioned by Breitbart and Infowars.
Yes, you got me there, I'm a nutjob.
Available evidence would suggest that.

Giving you examples why you were wrong to 'think' that EU purports to be 'no more than a benign (good thing it's not malignant, eh? rofl) trading bloc' was me helping you. Normal people would say thanks.

smile

FunkyNige

8,859 posts

274 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
vice president of the eu commission said:
We're building the European Union of security and defence. It's not a plan anymore. It's not a dream anymore. It's reality coming true. The dream of our founding mothers and fathers is finally coming true.
Link
Godwin alert...
In the book 'D-Day through German Eyes' the German soldiers, together with their allied soldiers from other European countries, often talk about their role being to defend a united Europe against the invading British and American soldiers.
Not massively relevant but an interesting aside!

ATG

20,480 posts

271 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
Coolbanana said:


Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
It would be worth your while studying the history of empires. They always fall, sometimes quickly, sometimes it takes a long time, but they always fall.

With any Empire the power and money always finds itself concentrated in a way that leads to its collapse as the power holders lose their grasp on what the people want or need, it's why nations tend to form in the size and political structure their circumstances require, quite often the geography and climate of the region plays a major role in how the best political structures form. A centralised power over a diverse entity is doomed to failure.
Except it's not an empire and it isn't centralised.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
ATG said:
jsf said:
Coolbanana said:


Nations behaving completely separately is negative in my view, small-minded and harks back to a more insular less educated time. It started out as Cavemen in little groups, became Villages, then Towns, Cities and Country's. Next natural step has to be more Global harmonisation. Yes to no centrally-controlled Military, yes to checks and balances so no one Group can control another but equally yes to more working and living together and removing antiquated borders.
It would be worth your while studying the history of empires. They always fall, sometimes quickly, sometimes it takes a long time, but they always fall.

With any Empire the power and money always finds itself concentrated in a way that leads to its collapse as the power holders lose their grasp on what the people want or need, it's why nations tend to form in the size and political structure their circumstances require, quite often the geography and climate of the region plays a major role in how the best political structures form. A centralised power over a diverse entity is doomed to failure.
Except it's not an empire and it isn't centralised.
What is the EU, what will it look like in 50 years?

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
BlackLabel said:
vice president of the eu commission said:
We're building the European Union of security and defence. It's not a plan anymore. It's not a dream anymore. It's reality coming true. The dream of our founding mothers and fathers is finally coming true.
Link
And another video showing where the efforts are going.

Link

Not exactly an army, is it?
It's pretty clear from what the EU foreign minister said that she isn't just talking about maintaining the status quo.

Even Macron is saying the same:

Beeb said:
In a major speech at the Sorbonne university in Paris, Mr Macron said he wanted the European Union to have "autonomous capacity for action" through a joint military force.
He gave few further details but said the force should complement, rather than replace, Nato's capabilities and aim to begin operations in about 2020.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41403394





voyds9

8,488 posts

282 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
Hayek said:
Are they going to use this European defence force to stop people crossing the Med?
No, but they will help ensure their safety as they cross.

steveT350C

6,728 posts

160 months

Friday 24th November 2017
quotequote all
voyds9 said:
Hayek said:
Are they going to use this European defence force to stop people crossing the Med?
No, but they will help ensure their safety as they cross.
And 'help' all those who 'lost' their passports