Discussion
alfie2244 said:
I watched Merkel's speech as Juncker lapped it up. Frightening times.I think I'd rather become a 51st State than continue with the EU.
fakenews said:
alfie2244 said:
I watched Merkel's speech as Juncker lapped it up. Frightening times.I think I'd rather become a 51st State than continue with the EU.
Scary times indeed.
Murph7355 said:
As good members of the club we'd have stopped it with our veto....
Read this and digest it.https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-politic...
Murph7355 said:
As good members of the club we'd have stopped it with our veto....
So far as I understand it, the good Mrs May has rolled over and pledged our support from outside...But is it getting to the point where it might be worth slimming NATO down to the grown ups only, who are fully committed (including funding) and reliable, and leaving the rest to their own devices?
We'd quickly see how popular a Franco/German Euro Army actually was without the NATO backstop.
markcoznottz said:
Problem is leftys hate spending money on defence, it's effectively 'lost' money to them. It's easy passing laws on wheelie bins, this is something else.
Yes but they have those pesky ruskies they might need a lesson about who's the daddy in the east , and might need a rapid intervention force to quell civil unrest in the troublesome southern states if they start that independence nonsense in spain or Italy thinks it knows best re its budget ...
jsf said:
Achhh, we'd have vetoed that too.
toppstuff said:
Without cliches about WW2 could someone with a brain explain the pros and cons of the European continent being able to defend itself without depending on the US please ?
I’d like to hear it.
It's just the Europeans up to their anti-American bashing normal self, a vast majority of them don't like the USA and they're not that fond of us either unless we're dancing to the tune being played by Germany or France.I’d like to hear it.
Murph7355 said:
jsf said:
Achhh, we'd have vetoed that too.
toppstuff said:
Without cliches about WW2 could someone with a brain explain the pros and cons of the European continent being able to defend itself without depending on the US please ?
I’d like to hear it.
Because the US won't have a say in how they are deployed, particularly internal security.I’d like to hear it.
toppstuff said:
Without cliches about WW2 could someone with a brain explain the pros and cons of the European continent being able to defend itself without depending on the US please ?
I’d like to hear it.
In a nutshell, it could be an excellent idea, provided that the Germans and French could be trusted to behave themselves. The majority of other (smaller) countries in Europe are not entirely confident that that proviso can be met in all circumstances. Until it can be met, NATO has an effective check in place to such potential misbehaviour.I’d like to hear it.
Cost-effectiveness is another issue - NATO provides the support of military forces many more times more powerful and effective than the Europeans would be prepared to man and fund themselves.
(FWIW, if I were Trump, I'd make membership of a European Army and NATO a binary choice.)
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