Man killed because his cruise control wouldn't switch off!

Man killed because his cruise control wouldn't switch off!

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AJL308

Original Poster:

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/24/drivers...

The inquest in Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire, heard that the motorist was heard telling police his car was driving itself as it reached 119mph two seconds before the collision with the stationary 18-tonne lorry.

WTAF?? This is frightening.

No suggestion that it was intentional or that he was under the influence of anything.

Is this the biggest reason ever not to buy any vehicle with has a fully electronic starting system? At least you can turn a key to "off".

Andehh

7,107 posts

205 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
Poor chap....I just don't understand it though, why couldn't he just press long & hard on the brakes? Why not go for the handbrake? Why not sideswipe the central reservation and steer hard into it? Knock it into neutral? Hell...why not go into the back of a moving lorry?

Even Automatics allow you to change into neutral at speed?

Fair enough moment of panic, but over 8 minutes someone couldn't have stated the bleedin' obviousl.....





Edited by Andehh on Thursday 24th November 14:40

John145

2,447 posts

155 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
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I simply don't believe that the cruise control caused his death. It must have been confusion and hitting the accelerator thinking it was the brake and belief that the cruise control had overridden control.

Clutch or N then brake, not hard for someone who understands how the vehicle they're operating works.

thomasjonny69

64 posts

89 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
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Unless it was a DSG, why not just dip the clutch. That's still a mechanical connection.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
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it seems inconclusive really.

' but there was evidence of small steering left and right as dashcam footage from Mr Hague's HGV showed the car veering from the middle lane into nearside lane, where the motorway merged with A40.'

AJL308

Original Poster:

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
Andehh said:
I just don't understand this, why couldn't he just press long & hard on the brakes? Why not go for the handbrake? Why not sideswipe the central reservation and steer hard into it? Hell...why not go into the back of a moving lorry?

Why would you turn off the motorway, when the chance of it ending badly rockets up? At least on the motorway your all travelling at speed, in the same direction.

Fair enough moment of panic, but still.....
I don't understand it either. Why on earth would it not stay in neutral? I assume this was a manual car rather than an auto so it shouldn't even be possible for it to jump back in to gear. And, yes, stand on the brakes, pull the handbrake. Something has been missed here, surely?

Ste1987

1,798 posts

105 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
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If the car was a manual, surely putting it into neutral would have helped significantly?

DrDeAtH

3,586 posts

231 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
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Electronic handbrake? Doubt it would engage at that speed.
But surely knocking out of gear and braking normally would have been order of the day.

Andehh

7,107 posts

205 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
Last 1/3 of the article says it all. He had the accelerator peddle depressed...

News said:
The inquest heard that the main car part that recorded the data was destroyed in the collision, but it had fed the information to the vehicle's airbag system.

That data revealed the Skoda was travelling at 116mph with the accelerator pedal fully depressed five seconds before the crash.

No braking was recorded, but there was evidence of small steering left and right as dashcam footage from Mr Hague's HGV showed the car veering from the middle lane into nearside lane, where the motorway merged with A40.

The car continued to accelerate and hit a top speed of 119mph with the accelerator pedal pressed two-thirds of the way down, two seconds before the impact at 94mph when it was fully off, the inquest heard.

Mr Clatworthy said: "There is no indication that there was any error or problem with any of the electronic systems of the car in the five seconds leading up to the collision."

AJL308

Original Poster:

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
Given that it happened at 3am - is it possible that he was semi-asleep? Seems unlikely if he was on the phone for 8.5 minutes.

StottyEvo

6,860 posts

162 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
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Andehh said:
I just don't understand this
You're not alone. The first time I heard one of these stories of the accelerator pedal sticking I was 18 (Prius and the crossroads I think frown ) I thought long and hard, why didn't he knock the car off, bring it to a halt with the brake pedal as soon as he noticed the accelerations and stall the engine etc... I figured there must be more to it than that.

On my drive home that night, I constructed a test. I took my car to 100+ accelerating hard and then left foot braked. The brakes MASSIVELY overwhelmed the momentum and acceleration and the car quickly slowed. Turning the key would've yielded the same result.

So in conclusion, similarly, I just don't understand it.

AJL308

Original Poster:

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
Andehh said:
Last 1/3 of the article says it all. He had the accelerator peddle depressed...

[quote]The inquest heard that the main car part that recorded the data was destroyed in the collision, but it had fed the information to the vehicle's airbag system.

That data revealed the Skoda was travelling at 116mph with the accelerator pedal fully depressed five seconds before the crash.

No braking was recorded, but there was evidence of small steering left and right as dashcam footage from Mr Hague's HGV showed the car veering from the middle lane into nearside lane, where the motorway merged with A40.

The car continued to accelerate and hit a top speed of 119mph with the accelerator pedal pressed two-thirds of the way down, two seconds before the impact at 94mph when it was fully off, the inquest heard.

Mr Clatworthy said: "There is no indication that there was any error or problem with any of the electronic systems of the car in the five seconds leading up to the collision."
It says the accelerator pedal was depressed. The cruise control could have been responsible for that.

Shaw Tarse

31,543 posts

202 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
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AJL308 said:
It says the accelerator pedal was depressed. The cruise control could have been responsible for that.
Does cruise move the pedal?

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
Andehh said:
Last 1/3 of the article says it all. He had the accelerator peddle depressed...

News said:
The inquest heard that the main car part that recorded the data was destroyed in the collision, but it had fed the information to the vehicle's airbag system.

That data revealed the Skoda was travelling at 116mph with the accelerator pedal fully depressed five seconds before the crash.

No braking was recorded, but there was evidence of small steering left and right as dashcam footage from Mr Hague's HGV showed the car veering from the middle lane into nearside lane, where the motorway merged with A40.

The car continued to accelerate and hit a top speed of 119mph with the accelerator pedal pressed two-thirds of the way down, two seconds before the impact at 94mph when it was fully off, the inquest heard.

Mr Clatworthy said: "There is no indication that there was any error or problem with any of the electronic systems of the car in the five seconds leading up to the collision."
Is the pedal connected via wires etc to the engine or is it all electrowizardry? I wonder if he was pressing the brake, but the computer sent the info the wrong way?

Can someone really be that dense as to mash the accelerator pedal thinking they were braking (80 year olds aside)?

Andehh

7,107 posts

205 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
AJL308 said:
It says the accelerator pedal was depressed. The cruise control could have been responsible for that.
I've driven several cars with cruise control but none have held the accelerator peddle down when engaged (if that's what you mean?).

I also fail to see how 'cruise control engaged' would would only be recorded via 'accelerator peddle depressed' in the car's various data boxes. It's reasonable to assume the car would record them as separate units of data based on the importance in having them for accident recovery/diagnostics.


Also, from the article/corners report it does specifically say the below:

NEWS said:
....with the accelerator pedal pressed two-thirds of the way down
edit: Reworded to try and avoid ambiguity following below quote.

Edited by Andehh on Thursday 24th November 15:01

menguin

3,762 posts

220 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
AJL308 said:
Andehh said:
Last 1/3 of the article says it all. He had the accelerator peddle depressed...

[quote]The inquest heard that the main car part that recorded the data was destroyed in the collision, but it had fed the information to the vehicle's airbag system.

That data revealed the Skoda was travelling at 116mph with the accelerator pedal fully depressed five seconds before the crash.

No braking was recorded, but there was evidence of small steering left and right as dashcam footage from Mr Hague's HGV showed the car veering from the middle lane into nearside lane, where the motorway merged with A40.

The car continued to accelerate and hit a top speed of 119mph with the accelerator pedal pressed two-thirds of the way down, two seconds before the impact at 94mph when it was fully off, the inquest heard.

Mr Clatworthy said: "There is no indication that there was any error or problem with any of the electronic systems of the car in the five seconds leading up to the collision."
It says the accelerator pedal was depressed. The cruise control could have been responsible for that.
Would cruise control [i]fully[/] depress the pedal? Any cruise control system I've used before has used gradual acceleration, not WOT.

AJL308

Original Poster:

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
Shaw Tarse said:
AJL308 said:
It says the accelerator pedal was depressed. The cruise control could have been responsible for that.
Does cruise move the pedal?
All of the cars I've had with CC have done it.

MitchT

15,789 posts

208 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
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This is a concern I have with electric cars in particular. Is it actually physically possible to disconnect drive from the wheels in the event of the car's computers freezing in whatever state they happen to be in at the time, such that it wants to continue at its current speed until the battery is flat? Ditto conventional cars with 'drive by wire'.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
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Seems pretty clear from the inquest reports that he was confused and pressing the accelerator instead of the brake.

John145

2,447 posts

155 months

Thursday 24th November 2016
quotequote all
Andehh said:
AJL308 said:
It says the accelerator pedal was depressed. The cruise control could have been responsible for that.
I've driven several cars with cruise control but none have held the accelerator peddle down when engaged (if that's what you mean?).

I also fail to see how 'cruise control engaged' would also duplicate data for 'accelerator peddle depressed' in the car's various data boxes. It's reasonable to assume the car would record them as separate units of data based on the importance in having them for accident recovery/diagnostics.
2 different flexray signals from 2 different ECUs, one is throttle pedal position and other is DAS engine torque demand. The two are calculated from different places and one does not effect the other.