Discussion
del mar said:
rscott said:
The point missed by some on this thread is that the figures given earlier aren't for FGM carried out in the UK, but for FGM detected here. So could have occurred anywhere and anytime during the woman's life.
I'm simply saying that as a partial explanation as to why prosecutions aren't common (if at all) and in no way condoning or supporting the horrible practice.
Agreed, although the idea of parties to carry mass cutting seems new.I'm simply saying that as a partial explanation as to why prosecutions aren't common (if at all) and in no way condoning or supporting the horrible practice.
rscott said:
I'd say because it's hard to get evidence as to who actually carried out the offence? Are the girls able to confirm exactly which woman did it to her?
it won't be because they don't want to offend Muslims as FGM happens in other religions too..
Unless the girls are being abducted and having this carried out against their parents will.....the parents must be complicit.it won't be because they don't want to offend Muslims as FGM happens in other religions too..
Even if they cannot prove who carried it out - they could still prosecute people for aiding and abbetting.
Moonhawk said:
Unless the girls are being abducted and having this carried out against their parents will.....the parents must be complicit.
Even if they cannot prove who carried it out - they could still prosecute people for aiding and abbetting.
Of course they are. Most likely many will be recent arrivals, a large proportion probably illegal or seeking asylum etc.Even if they cannot prove who carried it out - they could still prosecute people for aiding and abbetting.
These young girls are being failed by the useless social care system in the UK.
People can bury their heads as much as they like. My good lady is a primary school teacher and this issue is climbing the agenda ALL the time. It is appalling that this is allowed to happen so openly as it does under the authorities noses due to them feeling unable to act. It is Rotherham all over again.
To suggest this is an irrelevance is reckless in the extreme.
As ever, it is easier to justify not making decisions than it is to make them.
MrNoisy said:
These young girls are being failed by the useless social care system in the UK.
That is a bit harsh, social care is stretched to the nth degree, dealing with the problems we already have in the country. Importing other problems that we have little experience of into the country is utter madness.
StottyEvo said:
To be fair, I'm not a fan of neither but circumcising doesn't cause much harm (arguably none at all) FGM clearly causes lots and lots of harm.
I think you're both aware of this though, so I'm not sure why you're making the point.
^^This.I think you're both aware of this though, so I'm not sure why you're making the point.
FGM means a woman cannot enjoy sex as I understand it. Circumcision does not have this effect & providing it is carried out be someone who knows what he/she is doing, with the correct, sterilised implements, has no proven long term effects.
I'm anti both of these practices: the former is pretty obvious, the latter I think causes stress, as it is often carried out in a noisy, alien environment, & there are horror stories of untrained 'religious' people carrying it out with blunt, non-sterile instruments.
del mar said:
That is a bit harsh, social care is stretched to the nth degree, dealing with the problems we already have in the country.
Importing other problems that we have little experience of into the country is utter madness.
Probably came across wrong. The ins and outs of whether they should be here etc is for others on other threads. They are here though and deserve the protection that is inherent with any modern civilised society. Importing other problems that we have little experience of into the country is utter madness.
I agree, social services are massively underfunded and it is not their problem per se. But, for whatever reason (this is the crux of the debate I feel) this issue is given a wide berth or brushed under the carpet etc etc. Some of the reasons are because of exactly what you say, it is just so outlandish to most in this country it is incomprehensible. It is still a failing though.
Add in to this those who have a vested interest in being offended on others behalf's (you don't need look far) and this issue which is affecting a large number of people continues along, getting bigger all the time.
How many other people in society or the authorities knew or at least suspected what was happening in Rotherham? I bet it is the order of hundreds. Same again here.
For the record, I am in no way suggesting this is at epidemic proportion or is the norm for certain sections of society. This 'article' in the BBC is raised by a charity that has concerns that things are getting worse.
Clitoral piercing ffs......
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I hope you are not going to let that go ahead? How can anyone possibly think it is acceptable to perform surgery on a perfectly healthy and normal baby for cosmetic reasons. Anyway I think there are plenty of critics of circumcision but it is just not considered an 'issue' by the media. And while I think it is just as disgusting and should also be banned at least it leaves the boy with a functioning penis (except for rare cases where it goes badly wrong). With FGM they often remove so much that as adults they get little sexual sensation and have all sorts of medical complications, even infertility.
Yipper said:
Male trimming = lowers HIV rate and makes yer pecker look bigger.
IIRC one study showed that in Sub-Saharan Africa the HIV rate is lowered slightly.The reason they couldn't reproduce the results somewhere like the UK is that we have access to basic hygiene and therefore don't benefit from cutting our bits off.
Africa has other 'questionable' rituals as well:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36892963
"The BBC's Ed Butler, who covered the story about Malawi's sexual "cleansing practices", says in some remote southern regions of the country it is traditional for girls to be made to have sex with a man after their first menstruation.
Some of the girls are as young as 12 years old, he reported."
The guy doing this cleansing being HIV+ but not telling anyone...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36892963
"The BBC's Ed Butler, who covered the story about Malawi's sexual "cleansing practices", says in some remote southern regions of the country it is traditional for girls to be made to have sex with a man after their first menstruation.
Some of the girls are as young as 12 years old, he reported."
The guy doing this cleansing being HIV+ but not telling anyone...
KTF said:
Africa has other 'questionable' rituals as well:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36892963
"The BBC's Ed Butler, who covered the story about Malawi's sexual "cleansing practices", says in some remote southern regions of the country it is traditional for girls to be made to have sex with a man after their first menstruation.
Some of the girls are as young as 12 years old, he reported."
The guy doing this cleansing being HIV+ but not telling anyone...
Whoa... you cant criticise Eric the Hyena he was only do his job, one that the girls parents paid for. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36892963
"The BBC's Ed Butler, who covered the story about Malawi's sexual "cleansing practices", says in some remote southern regions of the country it is traditional for girls to be made to have sex with a man after their first menstruation.
Some of the girls are as young as 12 years old, he reported."
The guy doing this cleansing being HIV+ but not telling anyone...
king Herriot was never asked to chop of a woman's clit,anonymous said:
[redacted]
Anyone can report it in theory, but in terms of supporting a prosecution it's going to need to victim to provide evidence and support a prosecution. You raise a good question. Some victims may see it as a cultural thing that is accepted. Most no doubt wouldn't even consider reporting the matter to the police.
La Liga said:
nyone can report it in theory, but in terms of supporting a prosecution it's going to need to victim to provide evidence and support a prosecution.
You raise a good question. Some victims may see it as a cultural thing that is accepted. Most no doubt wouldn't even consider reporting the matter to the police.
And there but for political will goes honour killings,arranged marriage, ful face veils and all the rest.You raise a good question. Some victims may see it as a cultural thing that is accepted. Most no doubt wouldn't even consider reporting the matter to the police.
No, a conscientious coppper can't change this tomorrow. We need the political will to stand up to it. So far we don't have that
del mar said:
It's equally easy to find posts from Islamic scholars which state the opposite. del mar said:
Oh come on. Do you really believe that the below are a good thing?"Mentioning some of these benefits, Dr. Haamid al-Ghawaabi says:
The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid, so they develop an unpleasant odour which may lead to infections of the vagina or urethra. I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision.
Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse.
Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain.
Circumcision prevents spasms of the clitoris which are a kind of inflammation.
Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire."
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