The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)

[anonymous-user]

Its more a case of what manufacturing jobs are uneconomic in the UK.

Its pointless trying to compete with Asia on low value added jobs, our energy policy and cost of doing business is too high to compete, especially in high production numbers where specialist products aren't required.

UK should be working towards high value added, high tech manufacturing, which is precisely what a modern car factory like Nissan Sunderland is. The low value added products should be imported.

If we can reduce the costs of the low value added components and raw materials, its going to help UK produce high value added at a competitive price the world can afford.

[///ajd]

jsf said:

Its more a case of what manufacturing jobs are uneconomic in the UK.

Its pointless trying to compete with Asia on low value added jobs, our energy policy and cost of doing business is too high to compete, especially in high production numbers where specialist products aren't required.

UK should be working towards high value added, high tech manufacturing, which is precisely what a modern car factory like Nissan Sunderland is. The low value added products should be imported.

If we can reduce the costs of the low value added components and raw materials, its going to help UK produce high value added at a competitive price the world can afford.

It is actually a case of which jobs a hard brexit might make uneconomic, that are currently viable. That is the relevant point.

What are these jobs that some are almost eager to get rid of?

I note that Minford’s position on manufacturing is generally negative. I don’t share that pessimism and think we should avoid a trade environment like WTO that risks our manuf base.

[powerstroke]

///ajd said:

jsf said:

Its more a case of what manufacturing jobs are uneconomic in the UK.

Its pointless trying to compete with Asia on low value added jobs, our energy policy and cost of doing business is too high to compete, especially in high production numbers where specialist products aren't required.

UK should be working towards high value added, high tech manufacturing, which is precisely what a modern car factory like Nissan Sunderland is. The low value added products should be imported.

If we can reduce the costs of the low value added components and raw materials, its going to help UK produce high value added at a competitive price the world can afford.

It is actually a case of which jobs a hard brexit might make uneconomic, that are currently viable. That is the relevant point.

What are these jobs that some are almost eager to get rid of?

I note that Minford’s position on manufacturing is generally negative. I don’t share that pessimism and think we should avoid a trade environment like WTO that risks our manuf base.

So you think EU made parts are cheaper than ROW parts then ????
To me a hard Brexit is where we stay in the CU etc and can't trade properly
you keep banging on about some bod called Minford nearly as silly as a guardian link...

Edited by powerstroke on Sunday 19th November 08:47

[wl606]

Amsterdam will be the new home of the European Medicines Union, after a coin toss. They were drawn with Milan on votes.

[Chris944_S2]

wl606 said:

Amsterdam will be the new home of the European Medicines Union, after a coin toss. They were drawn with Milan on votes.

Cannabis will be available in all pharmacies across Europe then

[amgmcqueen]

///ajd said:

jsf said:

Its more a case of what manufacturing jobs are uneconomic in the UK.

Its pointless trying to compete with Asia on low value added jobs, our energy policy and cost of doing business is too high to compete, especially in high production numbers where specialist products aren't required.

UK should be working towards high value added, high tech manufacturing, which is precisely what a modern car factory like Nissan Sunderland is. The low value added products should be imported.

If we can reduce the costs of the low value added components and raw materials, its going to help UK produce high value added at a competitive price the world can afford.

It is actually a case of which jobs a hard brexit might make uneconomic, that are currently viable. That is the relevant point.

What are these jobs that some are almost eager to get rid of?

I note that Minford’s position on manufacturing is generally negative. I don’t share that pessimism and think we should avoid a trade environment like WTO that risks our manuf base.

There is no 'hard brexit'.

We either leave the EU and everything else it entails, or we stay in the EU and override democracy.

[kev1974]

wl606 said:

Amsterdam will be the new home of the European Medicines Union, after a coin toss. They were drawn with Milan on votes.

I know they had a process of various elimination rounds, but it seems utterly bonkers to finally decide something so important, which directly affects the 8-900 employees as well as the greater pharma industry, by drawing bits of paper.

Slovakia isn't happy apparently, because one of the requirements of the decision process was that the agencies should be spread across the EU, and the Netherlands already has a couple.

At the time of writing, the new location for the Banking agency will be either Dublin or Paris.

[kev1974]

Aaaannnndd Paris wins the EBA, after another coin toss! Crazy stuff!

[vonuber]

Thank God for that. We don't need those pesky agencies with their expertise and jobs.

[jjlynn27]

kev1974 said:

wl606 said:

Amsterdam will be the new home of the European Medicines Union, after a coin toss. They were drawn with Milan on votes.

I know they had a process of various elimination rounds, but it seems utterly bonkers to finally decide something so important, which directly affects the 8-900 employees as well as the greater pharma industry, by drawing bits of paper.

Slovakia isn't happy apparently, because one of the requirements of the decision process was that the agencies should be spread across the EU, and the Netherlands already has a couple.

At the time of writing, the new location for the Banking agency will be either Dublin or Paris.

Why care about the destination?

Not only you have 800-900 highly skilled jobs leaving London, but you also have 35000 visits (again, mostly highly paid individuals with a lot of disposable income) not coming to London, but going somewhere else. At the same time, we'll need to establish an equivalent body.

At the same time households spending more on food following Brexit;

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-vote-has-made-ho...

[kev1974]

jjlynn27 said:

Why care about the destination?

Not only you have 800-900 highly skilled jobs leaving London, but you also have 35000 visits (again, mostly highly paid individuals with a lot of disposable income) not coming to London, but going somewhere else. At the same time, we'll need to establish an equivalent body.

Nah a few hundred will be highly skilled, but plenty of the staff will be regular project managers, administrators, IT, HR etc, albeit many of them well versed in medical and pharma terminology. There will be jobs for many of them here in the UK equivalent agency that will need beefing up now, in order to do the drug approvals for the UK market, and to interact with the European agency.

I doubt that the whole of those 35000 visits will simply evaporate off to AMS either. Big Pharma research, development, and testing won't be leaving the UK any time soon, they have everything they need here. So many of those scientists and doctors that came to EMA-arranged meetings in London, will carry on coming here, to talk directly to the drugs manufacturers and testers.

[Tuna]

jjlynn27 said:

Why care about the destination?
....

At the same time households spending more on food following Brexit;

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-vote-has-made-ho...

Maybe... just maybe we need to care about the destination enough to realise that we could actually do something about that food cost once we leave?

[///ajd]

vonuber said:

Thank God for that. We don't need those pesky agencies with their expertise and jobs.

Sad day. Utterly bonkers Brexit wrecking ball.

Still we've "taken back control".

Price worth paying Gisela, Boris, et al?

[PRTVR]

///ajd said:

vonuber said:

Thank God for that. We don't need those pesky agencies with their expertise and jobs.

Sad day. Utterly bonkers Brexit wrecking ball.

Still we've "taken back control".

Price worth paying Gisela, Boris, et al?

You say it as it comes as a surprise ? Most people knew EU jobs would not remain when we left, MEPs also will also lose their jobs you may be suprised to hear.

[anonymous-user]

jjlynn27 said:

Why care about the destination?

Not only you have 800-900 highly skilled jobs leaving London, but you also have 35000 visits (again, mostly highly paid individuals with a lot of disposable income) not coming to London, but going somewhere else. At the same time, we'll need to establish an equivalent body.

At the same time households spending more on food following Brexit;

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-vote-has-made-ho...

Considering these highly skilled jobs don't pay UK tax, but were paying tax to the EU, we will gain in tax take when our own staff start work.

Staff that do move are also about to get a 33% pay cut, because London weighting for EU staff is 141.8% of the Brusels pay grade, Amsterdam has a rate of 108%

ouch ouch ouch

http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/...

In contrast the bankers moving to Paris will only receive a 28% pay cut, they wont mind that as we all know bankers don't care about their salary.

[anonymous-user]

jsf said:

Considering these highly skilled jobs don't pay UK tax, but were paying tax to the EU, we will gain in tax take when our own staff start work.

Won't we be paying 100% of the salary

[jjlynn27]

kev1974 said:

Nah a few hundred will be highly skilled, but plenty of the staff will be regular project managers, administrators, IT, HR etc, albeit many of them well versed in medical and pharma terminology. There will be jobs for many of them here in the UK equivalent agency that will need beefing up now, in order to do the drug approvals for the UK market, and to interact with the European agency.

I doubt that the whole of those 35000 visits will simply evaporate off to AMS either. Big Pharma research, development, and testing won't be leaving the UK any time soon, they have everything they need here. So many of those scientists and doctors that came to EMA-arranged meetings in London, will carry on coming here, to talk directly to the drugs manufacturers and testers.

Plenty of support staff is outsourced (main IT certainly is). So no, not few hundred. A Huge majority of those will be highly skilled highly paid people with a lot of disposable income. There will be jobs for some of them if there is a UK version of it.

As for 36000 visits, you can doubt all you like, I'd imagine that the actual number of 'evaporating' to Ams will be much higher, as those were the numbers only coming to Medical Agency. Take into account non-EU companies that were based in London purely to be in the vicinity of the agency. You have UK pharmaceutical industry lobbying body warns against the creation of the separate body, as that would make UK drugs more expensive and they'd be available later. But who needs experts, right? They are just sabre rattling in order to tarnish The Glorious Brexitus Maximus.

[anonymous-user]

desolate said:

jsf said:

Considering these highly skilled jobs don't pay UK tax, but were paying tax to the EU, we will gain in tax take when our own staff start work.

Won't we be paying 100% of the salary

Yes, and getting half back, being as they are highly paid. It would probably make more sense to move the agency to the Pharma hub in Cambridge where the costs will be much lower than London. Take off our costs in paying for the EU to pay these people who then send their tax back to the EU. It would make a fun exercise to break down one blokes salary and the agency costs in London that were burning up our resources and using our infrastructure and see how that played out.

[Murph7355]

desolate said:

Won't we be paying 100% of the salary

We more than pay for the current ones - remember that we are a net contributor by a significant margin.

[Rocket.]

Finally some acknowledgement from some influential people in the EU that they might have got this a bit wrong....


“It wasn’t only Britain deciding to leave the EU, it was the EU which decided to leave Britain,”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/stop-br...