The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
FiF said:
+2, you have more patience than me Sway.
The level of stupidity beggars belief at times. Just to pick one, "why have we not heard any details about progress on post-Brexit trade deals?" Where the hell do you start with that one, not to mention, do we actually want such details waved about at this stage of the negotiation theatre?
If concerned about that level of stupidity, your beef is with David Davis, who confidently predicted that the UK would secure non EU trade deals within two years. He made that prediction in February 2016.The level of stupidity beggars belief at times. Just to pick one, "why have we not heard any details about progress on post-Brexit trade deals?" Where the hell do you start with that one, not to mention, do we actually want such details waved about at this stage of the negotiation theatre?
Edited by Breadvan72 on Saturday 23 September 05:57
andymadmak said:
My old mum used to say "if you can't say anything positive, then don't say anything at all". She also used to say that "it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it!"
Today's date must be after February 2018 on the Breadvan calendar. That's before any context of Davis's comment is taken into account.Nevertheless, you failed to address my point, which clearly needs explanation if it's too difficult to understand, so in shortish words, simply put. The EU started out saying we, UK, were not allowed to even discuss trade deals with other countries whilst still part of the customs union etc. If we then flaunted openly that we have been doing that, then it's just another "see! evidence of bad faith, untrustworthy" stick to hit us with. So it makes absolutely no sense in any way, tactically or politically to wave any discussions or progress of that out in the open. Yet stupid people in trying to grab at straws declare that as there are no detailed progress reports out in public domain then absolutely nothing is happening, the whole thing is a complete failure. Stupid is as stupid does.
All we need now is the Up Pompeii cast, Senna the Soothsayer crying Nay, nay and thrice nay, Frankie Howard to pop up with "Now it's rude to mock the afflicted" and we may indeed Titter, Titter we may. Oh please yourselves.
Now moving on, it seems with May's speech where she sets out an honourable offer to continue our support through the current budget cycle to which we had already signed up prior to EURef, then clearly no new 3rd country trade deals will be in effect until well after Davis's prediction. I'm not concerned nor hung up about that, things change and positions shift during negotiations, anyone who doesn't realise or accept that is indeed, to repeat, stupid is as stupid does. Furthermore as it is along the lines of, speaking very generally, the sort of exit strategy I and others proposed prior to EURef, then even if the mechanics of achieving it are different, then will take it as some recognition of the merit of our case.
andymadmak said:
///ajd said:
Yes, I thought that line of argument might be next.
You knew about the £350m then, but not the bus.
Thing is it was never really about the actual physical automotive passenger mode of transportation (bus), it was always about the big fat lie written on the side, including "Let's" and "NHS". Which you were aware of.
It is still incredible to now claim to be unaware of the £350m bus story.
Does the Hannah denial mean you do know who Dan Hannah is/was and what he said during the campaign?
Oh my.... Where to start. The bus is completely irrelevant to me. The debate about NHS contributions is adifferent, even if it was on the side of the bus. I did not want money saved from eu contributions to go to the NHS anyway, so that side of the Brexit argument held no weight for me whatsoever.You knew about the £350m then, but not the bus.
Thing is it was never really about the actual physical automotive passenger mode of transportation (bus), it was always about the big fat lie written on the side, including "Let's" and "NHS". Which you were aware of.
It is still incredible to now claim to be unaware of the £350m bus story.
Does the Hannah denial mean you do know who Dan Hannah is/was and what he said during the campaign?
I'd caution against siding with Eddie on the Hannan thing... He does have a track record of being wide of the mark. Lets see him produce the quote, in context, that proves that I said that I did not know who Daniel Hannan was/is.
andymadmak said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
I'll just leave this here for today, tomorrow & all eternity.
Quite what Hannan was on about in that clip I will never know. Anyway, he didn't influence me in my voting decision and I doubt his message was that widely disseminated. - certainly not as wide as the Government leaflet that went to every household in the land which asserted that we would be leaving the SM....The implication of your post was clear - "he's a nobody, who cares, lets move on".
Fine. Its funny, but fine.
The "never heard of the bus" line is much clearer however, and altogether much funnier.
We've gone from some never believing the bus to (for some) the bus not really being noticeable. Before too long there will be actual "bus deniers", who claim it was painted by Remain or even just photoshopped.
powerstroke said:
Oh please , calling racist has been one if not the main line of attack
from the smug , selfish , I'm alright jack metropllitan elite types to belittle
and dismiss people who voted leave , ..... Next ,,,,
If it's 'one of if not the main line of attack' it shouldn't be too difficult, even for you, to provide some evidence.from the smug , selfish , I'm alright jack metropllitan elite types to belittle
and dismiss people who voted leave , ..... Next ,,,,
FiF said:
[Ranty rant rant rant]
I am sorry that you find the published words of one of the holy prophets inconvenient. I cite what Davis said as indication that, like all who are charged with Brexit (save perhaps Hammond, one of the few apparently sane members of the Government), Davis is clueless. You ire and finger wagging should be directed at him. Your point about February 2018 is even funnier than what Davis himself said. Are you suggesting that all shall be OK because in the four and a bit months until next February all shall become a done deal? Lemon squeezy!
As a matter or realpolitik, if the departing UK wished to negotiate with whomever it wished, there would be little that the EU could do about this, and if the hard Brexiteers were in charge that might happen. In diplomatic reality, the UK might not wish to tread on even more toes than it is already treading on. In any event, the Government does not have the personnel available to negotiate many deals at once, as everyone is busy with Brexit. Indeed, much of Government has gone into stasis over Brexit. A Tory party internal squabble that has rumbled on for 40 years is derailing an entire country.
Davis breezily said that biggly big biggly big-ass deals (big ones) would be done quickly and with ease. Two years, he said. By that I take it that he meant within two years from deciding to leave, or maybe two years from giving the formal notice. Either way, his prediction is looking even dafter now than it looked when he made it in a highly comedic article that he (or someone who handles his crayons for him) wrote for Conservative Home in Feb 2016, which article I commend to all lovers of fun stuff.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 September 10:51
don'tbesilly said:
The BBC news has just said something quite similar, questioning the accuracy of their ratings in the past and just how wide of the mark they've been historically.
Amazing to get some balance from the Beeb!
Their 'accuracy' is irrelevant. The consequences of those ratings are relevant. I can provide you with the picture if you like.Amazing to get some balance from the Beeb!
It's not amazing to get balance from the Beeb at all. It's the conspiracy nutjobs who see bias everywhere, bar order-order and breitbart (or express, for that matter).
Garvin said:
..
a regime that is terrified of publishing its accounts ...
There you see the Brexit problem writ large. Some (many?) Brexiteers believe in nonsense. The accounts are published. Also, they are signed off by auditors. The auditors enter some qualifications. Do some basic fact checking, eh? Some (many?) Brexiteers trot out the same nonsense again and again. Debunk it again and again and they still cling on to the fictions. Debate is impossible when people believe in made up hoo hah and cannot be bothered to do even the most basic research. a regime that is terrified of publishing its accounts ...
Jockman said:
I'm noticing this thread starting to conflate Trumpism with Brexit.
Interesting angle.
They are part of the same project: Faux populism manipulated by proponents of Monopoly or Cartel Capitalism. Interesting angle.
PS: I don't mean the board game, although a game in which you try to get rich quick by f
king everyone else is sort of the underlying theme of Trumpism and Brexit.Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 September 11:06
powerstroke said:
I'm alright jack metropllitan elite types
It is a sad thing when terms such as elite or intellectual or even educated become insult terms, but most of the metro elite types that i have met are far from saying I am all right Jack. On the contrary, they are often bothered because of the effects that what might be bad decisions may have on people who are not metro elite types.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 September 11:11
powerstroke said:
jjlynn27 said:
B'stard Child said:
I don't know anyone who took the bus seriously.... seriously.....
But then I am just a thick racist xenophobe who hates brown people - apparently
Did anyone actually called you racist or is that in your head?But then I am just a thick racist xenophobe who hates brown people - apparently
from the smug , selfish , I'm alright jack metropllitan elite types to belittle
and dismiss people who voted leave , ..... Next ,,,,
jjlynn27 said:
don'tbesilly said:
The BBC news has just said something quite similar, questioning the accuracy of their ratings in the past and just how wide of the mark they've been historically.
Amazing to get some balance from the Beeb!
Their 'accuracy' is irrelevant. The consequences of those ratings are relevant. I can provide you with the picture if you like.Amazing to get some balance from the Beeb!
It's not amazing to get balance from the Beeb at all. It's the conspiracy nutjobs who see bias everywhere, bar order-order and breitbart (or express, for that matter).
A delightful lady from Deloitte popped up on a later piece on the Beeb and put things in perspective, she didn't say "storm in a teacup" just to be clear, but it would have made what she did say far shorter and for people like you more understandable..
If you'd like to introduce one of your recent crayonings, please feel free.
Funkycoldribena said:
It's great seeing supposedly intelligent blokes stamping their feet like a five year old when things haven't gone their way.
Great examples of why Brexit and Trump happened but far too thick to see it.
You chose to see it that way. Others may take a broader view. It's not a childish issue of getting what you want, it's a question of the wider public interest. Would you seriously argue that Trumpism is good for the US or the World? Brexit may be good for Britain, but there are serious arguments as to why it might not be. Great examples of why Brexit and Trump happened but far too thick to see it.
BTW, was a clever person mean to you as a child? You seem here and elsewhere to have a thing about clever and/or educated people.
Breadvan72 said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
...Said it before, not all Brexiteers are racists - far from it, but I'd bet all racists are Brexiteers.
.
I agree..
What I find funny is that people who subscribe to one of these opinions normally deride others for making the same type of association in other areas.
People who say most brexiters are racist typically think that someone saying most muslims are terrorist sympathisers is abhorrent.
People who say most muslims are terrorist sympathisers typically think that someone saying most brexiters are racist is abhorrent.
alock said:
Breadvan72 said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
...Said it before, not all Brexiteers are racists - far from it, but I'd bet all racists are Brexiteers.
.
I agree..
What I find funny is that people who subscribe to one of these opinions normally deride others for making the same type of association in other areas.
People who say most brexiters are racist typically think that someone saying most muslims are terrorist sympathisers is abhorrent.
People who say most muslims are terrorist sympathisers typically think that someone saying most brexiters are racist is abhorrent.
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