The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)

[anonymous-user]

powerstroke said:

bread and circuses maybe :

Nope, clowns too scary, and my latest squeeze is pretending to be gluten free (rubbish metro elite food fad - pah!)

Chariot racing, now, that would be a blast. Think Formula 1, but with even more cheating.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 24th September 09:22

[anonymous-user]

Nick Clegg on Andrew Mar show showing just why he should never be elected to any political off ice ever again

[powerstroke]

Breadvan72 said:

powerstroke said:

bread and circuses maybe :

Nope, clowns too scary, and my latest squeeze is pretending to be gluten free (rubbish metro elite food fad - pah!)

Chariot racing, now, that would be a blast. Think Formula 1, but with even more cheating.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Sunday 24th September 09:22

Maybe you could once we Brexit till then it's junker and the clowns !!!

[FiF]

powerstroke said:

Breadvan72 said:

powerstroke said:

bread and circuses maybe :

Nope, clowns too scary, and my latest squeeze is pretending to be gluten free (rubbish metro elite food fad - pah!)

Chariot racing, now, that would be a blast. Think Formula 1, but with even more cheating.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Sunday 24th September 09:22

Maybe you could once we Brexit till then it's junker and the clowns !!!

Did someone say chariot racing? Ready and waiting, start flag will be the Union Jack, obvs.

[anonymous-user]

To make a change from the dire men (mostly men, led by a dire woman) who run the UK and some bits of the EU (albeit that Macron is a non dire man and Merkel is a non dire woman, and they matter more than the dire Juncker et al), and to meet the familiar but mistaken point that the EU is a socialist conspiracy, try a shout out for Margrethe Vestager, the Competition Commissioner. She's a woman of ability, who is in charge of one of the EU's main activities, which is the regulation of competition. The Brexit battle isn't really, I suggest, a battle between Capitalism and Socialism, but a battle between unregulated or loosely regulated Monopoly and/or Cartel Capitalism and regulated Capitalism. I prefer the latter.

[confused_buyer]

Breadvan72 said:

(albeit that Macron is a non dire man and Merkel is a non dire woman, and they matter more than the dire Juncker et al), .

I think Merkel is pretty dire. She prevaricates on pretty much everything and her normal style is fo fudge and kick and any decision down the road rather than actually taking one. Her record is not good when looked at properly and she is only there because the selection of alternatives in Germany is as dire as in the UK.

Macron is totally unproven and hasn't done a single thing yet. Whether he actually does do anything or simply caves in at the first sign of massive industrial disruption in France which every other President who has talked the good fight has done remains to be seen.

[anonymous-user]

Someone a while back suggested mistakenly that I was disputing the existence of the metro elite. I was not. I was, however, querying the repeated assertions that the metro elite think only of themselves (I'm alright Jack, and all that). Some of the metro elite may, of course, be completely selfish, but that will be true of people from many demographics. In other contexts, the usual NPE rant against the metro elite is that they think too much and worry too much about stuff that need not concern them - eg poverty and social injustice and the environment and so on. But never let it be said that a Brexiteer can't have cake and eat it, and so multiple and inconsistent positions are always good.

Someone bizarrely claimed that the petition supporting Uber (an organisation that even as an apparent metro elitist I deplore) proves that the metro elite are selfish. Leaving aside the irony of the Brexity right suddenly becoming champions of the downtrodden and often migrant workforce of Uber, I doubt that all or even most of the petition signatories are bankers, lawyers and so on. Facebook is currently featuring many "OMG I can't get a cheap ride at the expense of some exploited migrant driver anymore" posts from people who probably earn fairly average wages.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 24th September 10:43

[anonymous-user]

confused_buyer said:

I think Merkel is pretty dire. She prevaricates on pretty much everything and her normal style is fo fudge and kick and any decision down the road rather than actually taking one. Her record is not good when looked at properly and she is only there because the selection of alternatives in Germany is as dire as in the UK.

Macron is totally unproven and hasn't done a single thing yet. Whether he actually does do anything or simply caves in at the first sign of massive industrial disruption in France which every other President who has talked the good fight has done remains to be seen.

I agree that Merkel is dire.

"What happened in 2015 cannot, should not and must not happen again." - like it was nothing to do with her!

Hugely damaged by her action 2 years ago but a concerted wool pulling campaign has frightened the Germans into forgiving her.

No different from any other politician. Self serving, disingenuous and ego driven.

Will reserve judgment on Macron. As you say, he's done nothing yet but produce a few sound bites. Still plenty of time for him to show up as no different to the rest. Especially when his gravy train arrives.

[anonymous-user]

I would describe Merkel as mediocre and unduly cautious in most but not all respects, but not as dire. Given the competition (May, Trump, and so on), she looks like Frederick the Great. Macron is as yet unproven but doesn't seem to be shaping up as dire.

[anonymous-user]

I just caught up with Labour's second-looniest Brexit loon Kate Hoey MP having a ranty about Brexit on the telly, and slagging off the BBC for being unpatriotic. On which channel? Russia Today, of course. Some things are beyond satire.

(Labour's looniest Brexit loon is of course Jeremy Corbyn).

[anonymous-user]

More telly. Nige nails it -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcWkFfvv2hM

[anonymous-user]

Breadvan72 said:

I would describe Merkel as mediocre and unduly cautious in most but not all respects, but not as dire. Given the competition (May, Trump, and so on), she looks like Frederick the Great. Macron is as yet unproven but doesn't seem to be shaping up as dire.

It's looking like although Merkel will be the top dog, she will have a major problem to deal with forming the new German government with the rise of the AFD, we could see a very different makeup of the next government after months of in fighting to form this government, we could see months of Germany having no effective government, tonight will tell us more on this.

It's pretty clear what Macron wants and needs from Germany, that of a Euro with full fiscal transfers has zero chance of happening with Merkel in charge, so his long term strategy is screwed before he has even started. Shultz was his only hope, but he seems to have been rejected by the Germans.

Macron is arrogant enough (think Blair x 10) he will prepared to see his country on fire to push through his reforms, he is no Hollande. I expect to see a very messy France as his reforms to the French way of life kick in. You will see austerity ++ and that is going to be for nothing, because their problem is all linked up in the Euro, something that isn't going to be fixed.

The only hope for France now, is if Italy blows the Euro up. If that doesn't happen then back we go to the far right surging further in popularity.

[Garvin]

Breadvan72 said:

I would describe Merkel as mediocre and unduly cautious in most but not all respects, but not as dire. Given the competition (May, Trump, and so on), she looks like Frederick the Great. Macron is as yet unproven but doesn't seem to be shaping up as dire.

Merkel is OK (but not briliant) if you are German which is why she'll almost certainly be re-elected. However, is she good for the EU overall or is her approach eventually going to contribute to the collapse of the regime? If the right wingers increase their vote and get some seats will the 'establishment' in Germany and the EU as a whole continue to ignore the rise of right wing?

Macron is going where others have feared to tread - seems to be a gamble on his part but is, IMO, necessary if France is to move forward. I await the outcome with interest but his popularity appears to be waning somewhat.

Italy is, well, Italy and seems to have an economy stuck in permanent stagnation.

I fear the biggest economic effect on UK is not Brexit per se but the melt down of the EU in the future. Brexit may well advance that situation - but that's a whole new topic.

[Deptford Draylons]

Breadvan72 said:

I could as well say "there was a referendum in 1975 - you cannot question the result of that", but I don't say that. You may recall that Farage said that if the vote had gone the other way he would not have accepted that result. We live in a democracy. Many voters do not accept the legitimacy of taking the answer given by well under half of the electorate to a ridiculously simplistic yes/no question, that answer having been procured by fraud, as a basis for determining the future of the democracy. If you don't like democratic debate, then opt not to take part in it, but you cannot suppress debate.

Well at least you were honest enough to support a referendum, as I recall you said it was good to revisit this after 40 years.
Sadly though, not everyone agrees with that. Even more sadly, they only disagreed with that the moment they didn't get the result they wanted, such was the levels of being assured Remain would win. Bit like when Paddy Ashdown thought he'd seal the win before the result by saying he'd respect no one who didn't respect the vote.

I don't recall any concern by you or others here as to the question on the ballot paper or the fact you knew a certain percentage of the electorate wouldn't bother their arse to vote. It all looks a bit sour grapes when it appears as revisionist , what with others on this thread taking non voters as being more on your side than the other.

Anyway, this argument seems a year and more out of date and encouraged the ' but Dan Hannan said ' dolts to out the woodwork.

[CaptainSlow]

Breadvan72 said:

I am less a supporter of the EU than a supporter of the UK,

I'm also a supporter of the UK, and I believe that on the current trajectory within the EU, the UK would cease to exist.

[davey68]

Good point. Junckers recent speech about the direction of travel of the EU should highlight even to remainers the ambition of Brussels is a united states of Europe. A single financial overseer, everyone adopting the euro, an EU army etc. I most certainly do not want the UK dragged into that and would prefer we are masters of our own destiny. Yes we want to trade effectively with Europe, it is in everyone's interests, but we also want to forge trade alliances with the faster growing world economies too.

[powerstroke]

davey68 said:

Good point. Junckers recent speech about the direction of travel of the EU should highlight even to remainers the ambition of Brussels is a united states of Europe. A single financial overseer, everyone adopting the euro, an EU army etc. I most certainly do not want the UK dragged into that and would prefer we are masters of our own destiny. Yes we want to trade effectively with Europe, it is in everyone's interests, but we also want to forge trade alliances with the faster growing world economies too.

Yes agree and I'm sure many of the other than the powerful EU members feel things are getting a bit out of hand and feel powerless , I fear the rise of far left and right and Europe in trouble if the EU isn't stood up to , we have the opportunity to
cut some of the EU's power by leaving ,but sadly May ,Hammond, big business and many others would rather appease and
suck up to this socialist behemoth for short term gain...

[Murph7355]

Breadvan72 said:

Someone a while back suggested mistakenly that I was disputing the existence of the metro elite. I was not. I was, however, querying the repeated assertions that the metro elite think only of themselves (I'm alright Jack, and all that). Some of the metro elite may, of course, be completely selfish, but that will be true of people from many demographics. In other contexts, the usual NPE rant against the metro elite is that they think too much and worry too much about stuff that need not concern them - eg poverty and social injustice and the environment and so on. But never let it be said that a Brexiteer can't have cake and eat it, and so multiple and inconsistent positions are always good.

Someone bizarrely claimed that the petition supporting Uber (an organisation that even as an apparent metro elitist I deplore) proves that the metro elite are selfish. Leaving aside the irony of the Brexity right suddenly becoming champions of the downtrodden and often migrant workforce of Uber, I doubt that all or even most of the petition signatories are bankers, lawyers and so on. Facebook is currently featuring many "OMG I can't get a cheap ride at the expense of some exploited migrant driver anymore" posts from people who probably earn fairly average wages.

It seems to me that you have no idea what people refer to when talking about the metro elite from the above.

It's not about political leaning.

And I'm not wholly sure where the Uber predicament comes into it either.

[confused_buyer]

Not a great result for Merkel. She'll stay chancellor but with an odd coalition which probably won't manage any reform of how the Eurozone works.

Both current parties have lost votes, 10% down in Merkel's case, if exit polls are right.

[Eddie Strohacker]

confused_buyer said:

Not a great result for Merkel. She'll stay chancellor but with an odd coalition which probably won't manage any reform of how the Eurozone works.

.

?? She campaigned on a platform of tax cuts, public investment & reduced unemployment. You appear to have donated an unsolicited policy to the CDU.