The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)
Discussion
TTwiggy said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Many only believed they were voting to join a European trading bloc known as the EEC. Had they been told at the time that the EEC would change `itself' into an over arching organization which would hold supremacy over the laws of this country and its ability to self determine, the vote in 1975 would have been overwhelmingly to leave the EEC
Were we in possession of crystal balls back in 1975?It's not like the evolution of the EEC into the EU hasn't caused friction in Politics for years is it?? Various treaties have been debated over the years with strong views on both sides and it is clear our politicians have been divided on the issue regardless of party lines
alfie2244 said:
So go on how many copies of that was sold as a % of the voting electorate?....100% guarantee the vast majority of "ordinary" working class electorate never read it.
If only they'd had Cambridge Analytics spoon-feeding them prejudice-reaffirming s
te via social media, eh? 
alfie2244 said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
TTwiggy said:
Were we in possession of crystal balls back in 1975?
Didn't need one. Alfie's been shown this many times & his best gold is it was printed in a paper no one read. The old shooting the piano player defence.
Yet we weren't informed enough this time to make a referendum decision apparently.
alfie2244 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Agreed, my question was somewhat rhetorical, but even you will have to admit that the 1975 EEC referendum was voted on by the UK citizens with only a tiny fraction of the information made available to the public then, than was available in 2016.
Many only believed they were voting to join a European trading bloc known as the EEC. Had they been told at the time that the EEC would change `itself' into an over arching organization which would hold supremacy over the laws of this country and its ability to self determine, the vote in 1975 would have been overwhelmingly to leave the EEC, (especially as many extant then with ability to vote, would have been those who only a few years before had been fighting the very country which now controls the EU).
Gina Millers legal intervention, not forgetting the actual experience of living in the EU for 40 odd years, and the vast difference in information available to the voting public of the UK in 2016, means that the result of the 2016 referendum is in all probability much sound than the fudged way the UK was slid into the EU via voting to remain in the EEC..
If the EU had truly been (or had even been perceived) as being good for the `majority' of the people of UK, the 2016 vote would have been for it to remain a member state, but what is now history has shown us, is that this was not in fact the case.
Well put.........only to add - "if the EU had truly been (or had even been perceived) as being good for the `majority' of the people" - then after 40 odd years of membership it should have been a doddle for the remainers to have demonstrated it instead of resorting to insults and scaremongering.Many only believed they were voting to join a European trading bloc known as the EEC. Had they been told at the time that the EEC would change `itself' into an over arching organization which would hold supremacy over the laws of this country and its ability to self determine, the vote in 1975 would have been overwhelmingly to leave the EEC, (especially as many extant then with ability to vote, would have been those who only a few years before had been fighting the very country which now controls the EU).
Gina Millers legal intervention, not forgetting the actual experience of living in the EU for 40 odd years, and the vast difference in information available to the voting public of the UK in 2016, means that the result of the 2016 referendum is in all probability much sound than the fudged way the UK was slid into the EU via voting to remain in the EEC..
If the EU had truly been (or had even been perceived) as being good for the `majority' of the people of UK, the 2016 vote would have been for it to remain a member state, but what is now history has shown us, is that this was not in fact the case.
Pan Pan Pan said:
No more than we are in possession of crystal balls now, so why all the doom mongering from the remainers?.
NO one in 1975 knew what joining the EEC would mean for the UK then, any more than people know now what leaving the EU will actually mean now.
Like it or not the decision to leave has been made, so all that any citizen of the UK can do is whatever they can to make the UK a success in its new position. There were no doubt people in 1975 who believed staying in the EEC was a mistake, but we did not see huge rally's, and hoards of moaners trying to subvert the democratic decision of the majority as we have seen now,
Doom mongering is so pitiful it has to, and can only be despised. by the `normal' people of the UK.
Christ on a bike. Yes, you won. Marvellous. So maybe you should 'get on with it' and 'get behind it' rather than bemoaning the moaners?NO one in 1975 knew what joining the EEC would mean for the UK then, any more than people know now what leaving the EU will actually mean now.
Like it or not the decision to leave has been made, so all that any citizen of the UK can do is whatever they can to make the UK a success in its new position. There were no doubt people in 1975 who believed staying in the EEC was a mistake, but we did not see huge rally's, and hoards of moaners trying to subvert the democratic decision of the majority as we have seen now,
Doom mongering is so pitiful it has to, and can only be despised. by the `normal' people of the UK.
And your last line has to be parody, surely?
Funkycoldribena said:
Versus the 9 million quid of leaflets delivered to every house in 2016.
Yet we weren't informed enough this time to make a referendum decision apparently.
Versus the higher amount spent by leave. Another dead end argument from the purveyor de nos jours.Yet we weren't informed enough this time to make a referendum decision apparently.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/jour...
Eddie Strohacker said:
TTwiggy said:
Were we in possession of crystal balls back in 1975?
Didn't need one. Alfie's been shown this many times & his best gold is it was printed in a paper no one read. The old shooting the piano player defence.I was around at the time , and I voted in the 1975 referendum, but I never saw or heard any indication of what the EEC would turn `itself' into. I doubt that even Heath fully understood what it would mean for the people of the UK).
I await your confirmation that every person in the UK knew and understood that staying in the EEC would mean the UK would be slid into something completely different (the EU) but I wont be holding my breath.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Versus the 9 million quid of leaflets delivered to every house in 2016.
Yet we weren't informed enough this time to make a referendum decision apparently.
Versus the higher amount spent by leave. Another dead end argument from the purveyor de nos jours.Yet we weren't informed enough this time to make a referendum decision apparently.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/jour...
Your own link says -
Remain Total £16,152,899
Leave total £11,534,426
TTwiggy said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
No more than we are in possession of crystal balls now, so why all the doom mongering from the remainers?.
NO one in 1975 knew what joining the EEC would mean for the UK then, any more than people know now what leaving the EU will actually mean now.
Like it or not the decision to leave has been made, so all that any citizen of the UK can do is whatever they can to make the UK a success in its new position. There were no doubt people in 1975 who believed staying in the EEC was a mistake, but we did not see huge rally's, and hoards of moaners trying to subvert the democratic decision of the majority as we have seen now,
Doom mongering is so pitiful it has to, and can only be despised. by the `normal' people of the UK.
Christ on a bike. Yes, you won. Marvellous. So maybe you should 'get on with it' and 'get behind it' rather than bemoaning the moaners?NO one in 1975 knew what joining the EEC would mean for the UK then, any more than people know now what leaving the EU will actually mean now.
Like it or not the decision to leave has been made, so all that any citizen of the UK can do is whatever they can to make the UK a success in its new position. There were no doubt people in 1975 who believed staying in the EEC was a mistake, but we did not see huge rally's, and hoards of moaners trying to subvert the democratic decision of the majority as we have seen now,
Doom mongering is so pitiful it has to, and can only be despised. by the `normal' people of the UK.
And your last line has to be parody, surely?
Pan Pan Pan said:
Pathetic, unless you can explain how you can guarantee that every citizen of the UK read and fully understand what that tiny article in one newspaper at the time actually meant for the UK, If you cannot do this, then its inclusion here is pointless b*llox.
I think I like you better when you're doing the parrot thing about it all being pointless arguing about it Pan Pan Pan said:
I was around at the time , and I voted in the 1975 referendum, but I never saw or heard any indication of what the EEC would turn `itself' into. I doubt that even Heath fully understood what it would mean for the people of the UK).
I await your confirmation that every person in the UK knew and understood that staying in the EEC would mean the UK would be slid into something completely different (the EU) but I wont be holding my breath.
Well, had you bothered to inform yourself at the time etc. etc. I'm getting buyers remorse vibes. Still, at least you're super happy now it's all gone your way, eh PPP?I await your confirmation that every person in the UK knew and understood that staying in the EEC would mean the UK would be slid into something completely different (the EU) but I wont be holding my breath.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Didn't need one. Alfie's been shown this many times & his best gold is it was printed in a paper no one read. The old shooting the piano player defence.
I'll support him a little without ganging up cos that's not fairThe Illustrated London News....... wow the country appears London centric even then - all those clever people in London needed illustrations?
I wonder what the circulation figures were on a monthly publication
I'm sure the letter was published far more widely
Eddie Strohacker said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Versus the 9 million quid of leaflets delivered to every house in 2016.
Yet we weren't informed enough this time to make a referendum decision apparently.
Versus the higher amount spent by leave. Another dead end argument from the purveyor de nos jours.Yet we weren't informed enough this time to make a referendum decision apparently.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/jour...
Apparently we were informed enough in 1975 to make the decision according to your posting of a newspaper clipping.
Whereas in 2016 with leaflets, internet, 24 hr news,endless TV debates we weren't informed enough to make a decision.
Hypocrisy much?
amusingduck said:
Your own link says -
Remain Total £16,152,899
Leave total £11,534,426
Leave donations 16,374,867
Point being not the spend or donations within a million or two of each other, but FCR's characteristically unimaginative implication remain shafted the taxpayer with a leaflet that was oh so biased & unfair on him, good old John Bull.
Eddie Strohacker said:
amusingduck said:
Your own link says -
Remain Total £16,152,899
Leave total £11,534,426
Leave donations 16,374,867
Point being not the spend or donations within a million or two of each other, but FCR's characteristically unimaginative implication remain shafted the taxpayer with a leaflet that was oh so biased & unfair on him, good old John Bull.
so remain still have £1,000,000 but leave appear to have best part of £5,000,000 - have they given it to the NHS???
Eddie Strohacker said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Pathetic, unless you can explain how you can guarantee that every citizen of the UK read and fully understand what that tiny article in one newspaper at the time actually meant for the UK, If you cannot do this, then its inclusion here is pointless b*llox.
I think I like you better when you're doing the parrot thing about it all being pointless arguing about it Pan Pan Pan said:
I was around at the time , and I voted in the 1975 referendum, but I never saw or heard any indication of what the EEC would turn `itself' into. I doubt that even Heath fully understood what it would mean for the people of the UK).
I await your confirmation that every person in the UK knew and understood that staying in the EEC would mean the UK would be slid into something completely different (the EU) but I wont be holding my breath.
Well, had you bothered to inform yourself at the time etc. etc. I'm getting buyers remorse vibes. Still, at least you're super happy now it's all gone your way, eh PPP?I await your confirmation that every person in the UK knew and understood that staying in the EEC would mean the UK would be slid into something completely different (the EU) but I wont be holding my breath.
Pan Pan Pan said:
TTwiggy said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
What are you doing to make the UK a success post Brexit?
Nothing. I'm in no position to influence it one way or the other. Got any other pointless questions?Pan Pan Pan said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Pathetic, unless you can explain how you can guarantee that every citizen of the UK read and fully understand what that tiny article in one newspaper at the time actually meant for the UK, If you cannot do this, then its inclusion here is pointless b*llox.
I think I like you better when you're doing the parrot thing about it all being pointless arguing about it Pan Pan Pan said:
I was around at the time , and I voted in the 1975 referendum, but I never saw or heard any indication of what the EEC would turn `itself' into. I doubt that even Heath fully understood what it would mean for the people of the UK).
I await your confirmation that every person in the UK knew and understood that staying in the EEC would mean the UK would be slid into something completely different (the EU) but I wont be holding my breath.
Well, had you bothered to inform yourself at the time etc. etc. I'm getting buyers remorse vibes. Still, at least you're super happy now it's all gone your way, eh PPP?I await your confirmation that every person in the UK knew and understood that staying in the EEC would mean the UK would be slid into something completely different (the EU) but I wont be holding my breath.
hing how 40 years of your life were st (how sad is that?), you should polish your zimmer frame, and thank junior for explaining to you why Miller's intervention was preservation of democracy and not attempt to circumvent it. Damn, imagine thinking that 40 years of your life you've spent 'enduring s
t'. Pan Pan Pan said:
Super happy? not really. All the 2016 referendum did was right a 40 year old wrong, Enduring 40 years of sh*t, how can that be a source of happiness? Still I am sure that even you realize that no matter how many times we all post here, it is not going to make the slightest jot of difference in the real world, so we just come her for a bit of light entertainment, and a bit of willy waving at the `other side' Fun isn't it?
In that case then, you'd better crack on with your back to the future, time travelling court case against Heath's (deceased) government. Bit I did notice your second sentence. That repeating yourself tic is back again. I call it Brexourettes.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff