Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 4
Discussion
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
LongQ said:
You have previously claimed that you know that costs are coming down in the renewables sector for turbine deployment and thus the generation it sometimes provides.
Yet when I suggest the numbers reported might imply something else you suddenly have no answers and just offer .... nothing of any use at all.
I did claim the costs were coming down. All publications, companies and authorities state that costs are coming down - yet, your position becomes by default "Goal posts moved, fake news."Yet when I suggest the numbers reported might imply something else you suddenly have no answers and just offer .... nothing of any use at all.
You've already shown insider knowledge by not being able to cost turbines from extraction to decommissioning. Criticising others is a bit rich, like the wealthy land-owners hosting turbines - and other renewables industry graspers - who have enjoyed £££ benefiting from freezing pensioners and general taxpayer largesse. They're not just a bit more rich these days.
Any sign of those costs yet? Thought not.
Shots Fired into the Christy/Spencer Building at UAH
April 24th, 2017 by Roy W. Spencer, PhD
April 24th, 2017 by Roy W. Spencer, PhD
Dr Roy Spencer of UAH said:
A total of seven shots were fired into our National Space Science and Technology Center (NSSTC) building here at UAH over the weekend.
All bullets hit the 4th floor, which is where John Christy’s office is (my office is in another part of the building).
Given that this was Earth Day weekend, with a "March for Science" passing right past our building on Saturday afternoon, I think this is more than coincidence. When some people cannot argue facts, they resort to violence to get their way.
Chalk another one up for ignorant lowlife greenslime activist scum and their attempts to silence opposition (as they're losing the debate; credible data wins out over the false consensus and blind faith every time) or accept it was a coincidence and some close formation stray bullets from miles away happened to strike a building where the satellite data record is maintained. Data which shows The Pause is alive and well and agw is still AWOL. Place your bets.All bullets hit the 4th floor, which is where John Christy’s office is (my office is in another part of the building).
Given that this was Earth Day weekend, with a "March for Science" passing right past our building on Saturday afternoon, I think this is more than coincidence. When some people cannot argue facts, they resort to violence to get their way.
OK I just read it and what a lot of hot air with absolutely no turbine costings whatsoever. Avoiding the question never looked so transparent and for the n'th time.
It's incredibly easy to see where the real misdirection is.
Have another go at these costs Mister Insider, bearing in mind we're not looking at construction, installation and connection costs as these astronomical sums are routinely confessed.
- location-specific capital cost
- maintenance and repair cost
- human social / health cost
- economic impact e.g. house prices near white elephant eyesores
- environmental impact cost e.g. rare earth extraction and processing clean-ups
- widespread and large-scale deaths of birds of prey and bats, WTP cost will do nicely
- conventional-power back-up
- baseload cycling cost
- reduced grid reliability cost
- decommissioning cost
If you don't know all of the above and can't find it you ought to appreciate that the subsidy farming / pensioner raiding industry you appear to be part of has no comprehensive answers either, why not just say so. Otheriwse you're wasting time directing people to dull rhetoric and baseless slurs.
It's likely to be more productive for others to focus on different shades of greenwash and junkscience, in other words business as usual for the politics of non-existent manmade global warming.
It's incredibly easy to see where the real misdirection is.
Have another go at these costs Mister Insider, bearing in mind we're not looking at construction, installation and connection costs as these astronomical sums are routinely confessed.
- location-specific capital cost
- maintenance and repair cost
- human social / health cost
- economic impact e.g. house prices near white elephant eyesores
- environmental impact cost e.g. rare earth extraction and processing clean-ups
- widespread and large-scale deaths of birds of prey and bats, WTP cost will do nicely
- conventional-power back-up
- baseload cycling cost
- reduced grid reliability cost
- decommissioning cost
If you don't know all of the above and can't find it you ought to appreciate that the subsidy farming / pensioner raiding industry you appear to be part of has no comprehensive answers either, why not just say so. Otheriwse you're wasting time directing people to dull rhetoric and baseless slurs.
It's likely to be more productive for others to focus on different shades of greenwash and junkscience, in other words business as usual for the politics of non-existent manmade global warming.
turbobloke said:
Have another go at these costs Mister Insider, bearing in mind we're not looking at construction, installation and connection costs as these astronomical sums are routinely confessed.
- location-specific capital cost
- maintenance and repair cost
- human social / health cost
- economic impact e.g. house prices near white elephant eyesores
- environmental impact cost e.g. rare earth extraction and processing clean-ups
- widespread and large-scale deaths of birds of prey and bats, WTP cost will do nicely
- conventional-power back-up
- baseload cycling cost
- reduced grid reliability cost
- decommissioning cost
If you don't know all of the above and can't find it you ought to appreciate that the subsidy farming / pensioner raiding industry you appear to be part of has no comprehensive answers either, why not just say so. Otheriwse you're wasting time directing people to dull rhetoric and baseless slurs.
Can you show us the same costs for a coal mine? Otherwise, what's your point?- location-specific capital cost
- maintenance and repair cost
- human social / health cost
- economic impact e.g. house prices near white elephant eyesores
- environmental impact cost e.g. rare earth extraction and processing clean-ups
- widespread and large-scale deaths of birds of prey and bats, WTP cost will do nicely
- conventional-power back-up
- baseload cycling cost
- reduced grid reliability cost
- decommissioning cost
If you don't know all of the above and can't find it you ought to appreciate that the subsidy farming / pensioner raiding industry you appear to be part of has no comprehensive answers either, why not just say so. Otheriwse you're wasting time directing people to dull rhetoric and baseless slurs.
This was the second item I had in mind when visiting the thread this morning.
Bearing in mind the general point that dealing with timewasters is a waste of time, this from D'Aleo is in my view worth some time, the rest is at the first link below the quote.
http://icecap.us/docs/change/Historicalpersectives...
Bearing in mind the general point that dealing with timewasters is a waste of time, this from D'Aleo is in my view worth some time, the rest is at the first link below the quote.
Jo D said:
The book Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds was a study of crowd psychology by Scottish journalist Charles Mackay, first published in 1841.
It was mentioned by astronomer Carl Sagan, Professor and Director of Cornell University’s Laboratory for Planetary Studies and host of the series Cosmos a Personal Voyage in a 1995 book The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.
Sagan explained the scientific method and encouraged critical and skeptical thinking. He emphasized the importance of recognizing the difference between what is considered valid science and which is in reality pseudoscience.
Sagan like fellow Cornell physicist/lecturer Richard Feynman argued when new ideas are offered for consideration, they should be tested by means of skeptical thinking and should stand up to rigorous questioning. Feynman lectured:
“If a theory or proposed law disagrees with experiment (or observation), it’s wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are who made the guess, or what your name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.”
Sir Karl Popper, an Austrian-British philosopher and professor is generally regarded as one of the greatest philosophers of science of the 20th century. Popper is known for his rejection of the classical inductivist views on the scientific method, in favor of empirical falsification: A theory in the empirical sciences can never be proven, but it can be falsified, meaning that it can and should be scrutinized by decisive experiments.
See the chapter by James R. Fleming, Professor of Science, Technology and Society at Colby College, how the scientific method worked in climate change theories all through history (second link below, pdf). That held until politicians with a globalist viewpoint were searching for a cause that would drive their globalization goals.
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blogIt was mentioned by astronomer Carl Sagan, Professor and Director of Cornell University’s Laboratory for Planetary Studies and host of the series Cosmos a Personal Voyage in a 1995 book The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.
Sagan explained the scientific method and encouraged critical and skeptical thinking. He emphasized the importance of recognizing the difference between what is considered valid science and which is in reality pseudoscience.
Sagan like fellow Cornell physicist/lecturer Richard Feynman argued when new ideas are offered for consideration, they should be tested by means of skeptical thinking and should stand up to rigorous questioning. Feynman lectured:
“If a theory or proposed law disagrees with experiment (or observation), it’s wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are who made the guess, or what your name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.”
Sir Karl Popper, an Austrian-British philosopher and professor is generally regarded as one of the greatest philosophers of science of the 20th century. Popper is known for his rejection of the classical inductivist views on the scientific method, in favor of empirical falsification: A theory in the empirical sciences can never be proven, but it can be falsified, meaning that it can and should be scrutinized by decisive experiments.
See the chapter by James R. Fleming, Professor of Science, Technology and Society at Colby College, how the scientific method worked in climate change theories all through history (second link below, pdf). That held until politicians with a globalist viewpoint were searching for a cause that would drive their globalization goals.
http://icecap.us/docs/change/Historicalpersectives...
Reading around the Spencer news there's this interesting comment froim Jo Nova who dug up some gun(g) ho guidance for the march of acolytes. Curate's egg otherwise.
Jo Nova said:
The organisers want Marchers to feel like they have the high ground, the smarts, but check out the advice to the noble superior mind:
Don’t pick fights (either verbal, physical or metaphorical) with people who you think are dumb, wrong, dangerous or unpleasant.
That ugly sentiment gets repeated (in case you missed it):
But do stick to your guns. [Whatever they are, eh? JN] Appealing to broader interests doesn’t have to mean pandering to interests that you think are dumb, wrong, dangerous or just plain unpleasant.
People with a different scientific opinion are obviously dumb, wrong, dangerous or just unpleasant. Plenty of smug warfare going on here.
And elsewhere involving people who lack the most basic of information on agw and related themes.Don’t pick fights (either verbal, physical or metaphorical) with people who you think are dumb, wrong, dangerous or unpleasant.
That ugly sentiment gets repeated (in case you missed it):
But do stick to your guns. [Whatever they are, eh? JN] Appealing to broader interests doesn’t have to mean pandering to interests that you think are dumb, wrong, dangerous or just plain unpleasant.
People with a different scientific opinion are obviously dumb, wrong, dangerous or just unpleasant. Plenty of smug warfare going on here.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
LongQ said:
Finally, even assuming that 100k jobs is likely to be "real" and "permanent", are jobs really the best measure of effectiveness of policy in the technological age of the proposed "Internet of Things?" and ever advancing robotics?
In this mornings missives received :A report published by RenewableUK said:
....... shows for the first time that UK-based companies working in the wind, wave and tidal energy sectors are exporting goods and services worldwide on a massive scale.
“Export Nation: A Year in UK Wind, Wave and Tidal Exports” reveals that in 2016, an illustrative sample of 36 UK-based firms featured in the report signed more than 500 contracts to work on renewable energy projects in 43 countries in Africa, Asia, North America, South America, Europe and Australasia. The contracts featured ranged in value from GBP 50,000 up to GBP 30 million each.
This is the first time that the industry has assessed the extent of Britain’s global reach in these innovative technologies, and the wide range of products and services the country sells overseas. The diverse reach of the contracts indicates that the UK is well placed to benefit from the USD 290bn global renewables market, trading with countries inside and outside the EU, RenewableUK said.
Projects featured include: Gaia-Wind in Glasgow which is exporting small onshore wind turbines as far afield as Tonga; JDR Cables which is manufacturing massive subsea power cables in Hartlepool for German offshore wind farms; and Sustainable Marine Energy in Edinburgh, which is making tidal turbine platforms for Singapore.
The UK is exporting its knowledge too, with renewable energy consultancy firms in places such as Bristol, Newcastle, Colchester and Winchester, winning contracts to plan and oversee the development of wind farms and other renewable energy projects in dozens of countries including the USA, China, India, Chile, Japan, Indonesia, Taiwan and Mauritius.
“The UK’s wind, wave and tidal energy exports are great British success stories on the international stage. Our businesses are securing hundreds of contracts, worth millions of pounds, across six continents. Our leadership in this $290bn renewables marketplace will be even more important as we leave the EU,” RenewableUK’s Executive Director Emma Pinchbeck said.
“We need to act swiftly to retain this competitive advantage or other nations will capitalise on the hard work our businesses have done to build opportunities. This year, as part of its Industrial Strategy, the Government will be looking to identify and support world-leading, innovative industries with global trade potential. This report shows that the UK’s wind and marine energy sectors can offer much to the Government’s Industrial Strategy. Britain must secure its position as a leading exporter in tomorrow’s global energy market.”
Sounds OK to me.“Export Nation: A Year in UK Wind, Wave and Tidal Exports” reveals that in 2016, an illustrative sample of 36 UK-based firms featured in the report signed more than 500 contracts to work on renewable energy projects in 43 countries in Africa, Asia, North America, South America, Europe and Australasia. The contracts featured ranged in value from GBP 50,000 up to GBP 30 million each.
This is the first time that the industry has assessed the extent of Britain’s global reach in these innovative technologies, and the wide range of products and services the country sells overseas. The diverse reach of the contracts indicates that the UK is well placed to benefit from the USD 290bn global renewables market, trading with countries inside and outside the EU, RenewableUK said.
Projects featured include: Gaia-Wind in Glasgow which is exporting small onshore wind turbines as far afield as Tonga; JDR Cables which is manufacturing massive subsea power cables in Hartlepool for German offshore wind farms; and Sustainable Marine Energy in Edinburgh, which is making tidal turbine platforms for Singapore.
The UK is exporting its knowledge too, with renewable energy consultancy firms in places such as Bristol, Newcastle, Colchester and Winchester, winning contracts to plan and oversee the development of wind farms and other renewable energy projects in dozens of countries including the USA, China, India, Chile, Japan, Indonesia, Taiwan and Mauritius.
“The UK’s wind, wave and tidal energy exports are great British success stories on the international stage. Our businesses are securing hundreds of contracts, worth millions of pounds, across six continents. Our leadership in this $290bn renewables marketplace will be even more important as we leave the EU,” RenewableUK’s Executive Director Emma Pinchbeck said.
“We need to act swiftly to retain this competitive advantage or other nations will capitalise on the hard work our businesses have done to build opportunities. This year, as part of its Industrial Strategy, the Government will be looking to identify and support world-leading, innovative industries with global trade potential. This report shows that the UK’s wind and marine energy sectors can offer much to the Government’s Industrial Strategy. Britain must secure its position as a leading exporter in tomorrow’s global energy market.”
290Bn dollars and "worth millions of pounds".
After many years of reading puff piece PR output from all sorts of industries I can tell that this is a mainstream example. Feelgood stuff for those who don't need detail.
"Please Civil Servants, make us a special case for a position at the trough ...."
Had the world's politicians not decided to follow some self imposed self destructive policies the existing UK based technology companies were already well placed to ply their trade and experience around the world. Still, why not destroy those and the jobs they provided then claim the creation of new jobs in a new market where the balance of fiscal power has shifted?
If I were still a credulous youth I would probably see this plea as a glowing reference for my generation.
Ah, those were the days - as every generation can eventually understand.
Still, at least, Paddy, you have saved me the effort of doing some detailed research to create a post with verifiable numbers in it. It's clear you don't have any yourself and so any response would be mere arm flailing. Windmilling if you prefer the term.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
turbobloke said:
OK I just read it and what a lot of hot air with absolutely no turbine costings whatsoever. Avoiding the question never looked so transparent and for the n'th time.
OK, I think we are done here. Anyone else got a question?
From the GWPF, a comment on the increasing irrelevance of political Greens in Germany.
GWPF said:
For Germany’s long-successful Green Party the political situation is slowly becoming precarious. Meanwhile, their support in the polls is approaching the parliamentary five percent hurdle. On Sunday, the opinion research institute Emnid presented its latest survey. According to the pollsters, the Greens are now on only six percent – the worst support the Institute has measured for the party in 15 years.
turbobloke said:
In case anyone nearby is interested, there's a 'Climate Con' talk at Horsell Evangelical Church, High St, Horsell, GU21 4SZ starting 7pm on Thursday 04 May. The speaker is retired Rev'd Philip Foster.
You could always try this instead. You might not be welcome though TBUNITED NATIONS INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT.
26th - 30th June, 2017.
@
Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre (the QEIICC) London, United Kingdom).
Dear Invitee, Nonprofit/NGO Colleague,
On behalf of the organizing and scientific working committee, the United Nations Department for Sustainable Development invites you to a Four-day summit of Economists, Educationists, Administrators, Manufacturers, Researchers, Activist & Non-Governmental Organizations, Religious Leaders, Community Organizations, individuals from the Public and Private Sector from 26th - 30th June, 2017 in London (UK) to establish an inclusive and transparent intergovernmental process on SDGs that is open to all stakeholders with a view to developing global sustainable development goals. Aimed at reconciling the economic and environmental goals of the global community, and initiate a needed dialogue on the transformation of the international financial architecture, taking into account different national realities, capacities and levels of development and respecting national policies and priorities.
The decision to hold the conference was made by UN General Assembly Resolution 64/236 (A/RES/64/236) on December 2009. It was intended to be a high-level conference, including heads of state and government or other representatives and resulting in a focused political document designed to shape global environmental policy.
Date: 26th - 30th June, 2017.
Venue: Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre (the QEIICC) London, United Kingdom).
Conference Theme: Impact and implications of the global financial and economic crisis on sustainable development & climate change proposals for an integrated global response to the crisis.
Registration is "free" and strictly for invited individuals and organizations only. As an invitee, you have received a registration code UN/CSD0037283/LND/UK/2017 with the invitation letter, which grants you access to the registration form. The United Nations Commission on Sustainable Development will sponsor free travel costs and all-round flight ticket for all participant. Invited participants will only be responsible for their hotel accommodation and feeding cost at the London Queen's Gate Hotel. The Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre (the QEIICC) London, United Kingdom is the venue of this summit while the London Queen's Gate Hotel has been officially designated to accommodate all participant for this unique and prestigious global financial and economic crisis conference.
Participants will enjoy shows, attractions, activities, and tours available in host city. Entry visa authorization letter will be given to all confirmed participants who require a visa into United Kingdom through the Visa4UK office.
For further details about registration form, visa, flight ticket and other details, write an acceptance letter to be part of this event and send directly to the UNCSD Secretariat via e-mail: SECRETARIAT @ UNISDC.ORG
For more information call: +44(0)745-20-89187.
The #GlobalGoals seek to end poverty, reduce inequality & tackle climate change. Here’s how you can help.
Register Now!
robinessex said:
Er, do we know yet if the planet warming (whatever that actually is) is actually a problem? I believe I've asked this question a few times before.
don't know about the planet, but it is bloody warm in my house at the moment. heating on full bore to combat sub zero man made warming that arrived last night along with snow for a while this morning. Paddy_N_Murphy said:
turbobloke said:
benefiting from freezing pensioners and general taxpayer largesse. They're not just a bit more rich these days.
Hello Daily Mail.... grow up. Landowners have frozen pensioners. You're a f
king comic.44,000 died in 2014.
No need to look in the Mail, most of the media covered it.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
dickymint said:
Yep - what do you do for a living I.E. what's your job?
Fortunately, it's none of your businessdurbster said:
mybrainhurts said:
Oh, right, you missed the plight of elderely people who died because they had to choose between heat and food, then? Due to the high cost of energy, part of which is the high cost of renewables.
44,000 died in 2014.
How big a part?44,000 died in 2014.
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