Tim Farron

[NJH]

Well to be fair to them they need to determine what are they for, just saying centre, centre ground etc. is meaningless nonsense. Typically one hopes someone comes forward who puts up their vision of what a political party stands for which is then supported by the party or not. This is real leadership. Blair as much as people hate him did that as he was the focal point for a movement, Corbyn again has done it and defined what the Labour party is about now. The Conservatives haven't and really either have the Lib Dems other than taking a position on Brexit, which does nothing to define ones vision for the future of the country (hence making the tories an easy target for the Corbyn machine recently). This is the big problem for the Lib Dems, they had one position which was anti-Brexit and it did absolutely nothing for them in the recent election, now nobody really has much of any idea what they are for (Brexit apart) making them look pretty redundant to British politics. Will Vince Cable provide that vision? I doubt he will do anything other than pop up on Newsnight once a month, say lots of reasonable OK stuff which Lib Demers will lap up, but ultimately be utterly irrelevant to this countries future. He is perfect for them, an irrelevant political force for an irrelevant party.

[SilverSixer]

ash73 said:

techiedave said:

I may have been joking about the lady above but I tell you who I would think could carry it off

Tom Brake

Please anyone except Vince Cable. But it's a moot point anyhow, I could never vote LibDem while they maintain their current stance on Europe.

Well that's the point about Cable. He's likely to change the position on brexit if he can get it through conference. He's more akin to the Labour position on it.

I joined the LibDems this year before the election because they were the only ones offering a referendum on the brexit deal with an option to remain. That's what I want, and think should happen. Unpopular on here with the headbangers I know, but there it is. It's called 'democracy' and 'opposition' and 'legitimate dissent'. If the party position changes to supporting brexit and removing the remain option at the end of the process, I'll be handing my card back and possibly joining the Greens.

I would want Tom Brake for leader out of current MPs, perhaps Swinson. But it's not to be.

[mx-6]

I quite like Vince Cable, he has the credibility and experience so would be happy to see him as leader. He's obviously getting on a bit though so they do need to groom up some potential successors...

I voted Lib Dem in the GE as I actually thought they had a more sensible economic approach than the Conservatives. I really don't want to kick off another brexit debate but my humble personal opinion is that remaining in the EU or going down the so called soft brexit avenue will be better economically. I also think their policy of continuing deficit reduction but putting "a penny" on income tax to pay for extra spending on public services is sensible approach at this moment in time, rather than further austerity or excessive extra borrowing.

I was surprised that they didn't do better in the election and pick up more seats, with the polarisation of left and right I think the country could really benefit from a strong centrist party. Farron was clearly a turn-off for some so pleased he made way.

[Jinx]

mx-6 said:

I also think their policy of continuing deficit reduction but putting "a penny" on income tax to pay for extra spending on public services.

So remove the 1% pay cap and lets say double it to a 2% increase and at the same time increase income tax by 1%. So effectively giving the public services a 1% pay rise (admittedly works out slightly higher as the personal allowance won't be taxed)

[anonymous-user]

I do like Vince Cable in interviews. He seems to have the quietish slow patient delivery that many politicians could emulate.
I find Rees Mogg similar in his communication.

[mx-6]

ash73 said:

mx-6 said:

I was surprised that they didn't do better in the election and pick up more seats

Yes I thought they'd do better, but voters just didn't care about Brexit as much as other priorities. I've always voted LibDem in the past but voted Tory this time as I thought they needed a good majority to get the best deal, but I can understand why they didn't pull it off; the manifesto was nuts.

Yes I thought they could pick up a chunk of the remainer vote but it seems many see brexit as settled after the vote outcome.

That's interesting as I was the reverse, I've voted Conservative previously but was sufficiently put off by May, the approach to brexit and the manifesto to go Lib Dem this time....

[mx-6]

techiedave said:

I do like Vince Cable in interviews. He seems to have the quietish slow patient delivery that many politicians could emulate.
I find Rees Mogg similar in his communication.

Yes Cable's measured delivery and tone goes down well with me also.

I don't mind Rees Mogg, he is quite an eloquent and intelligent speaker, but I can't help but think he comes across as almost a caricature of himself, very mannered.

[James P]

SilverSixer said:

ash73 said:

techiedave said:

I may have been joking about the lady above but I tell you who I would think could carry it off

Tom Brake

Please anyone except Vince Cable. But it's a moot point anyhow, I could never vote LibDem while they maintain their current stance on Europe.

Well that's the point about Cable. He's likely to change the position on brexit if he can get it through conference. He's more akin to the Labour position on it.

I joined the LibDems this year before the election because they were the only ones offering a referendum on the brexit deal with an option to remain. That's what I want, and think should happen. Unpopular on here with the headbangers I know, but there it is. It's called 'democracy' and 'opposition' and 'legitimate dissent'. If the party position changes to supporting brexit and removing the remain option at the end of the process, I'll be handing my card back and possibly joining the Greens.

I would want Tom Brake for leader out of current MPs, perhaps Swinson. But it's not to be.

Brake is lucky to have kept his seat. To do that the LDs had to appeal to Labour voters to give him their votes. I've seen a lot of opposition to him locally and some labour supporters who did vote for him are now wondering why they gave him their vote as he's ignoring them.

His election expenses will be scrutinised due to volume of material and costs of paid deliveries as will support that he may have received from a local charity.

Based on his performances on to leading up to the election - he was embarrassed by Andrew Neill and then stopped appearing - he wouldn't be able to cope with the scrutiny that would come with leadership. He knows this which is why he's not put himself forward.

LD party locally and in council appear to be pretty unpleasant to their own members who break ranks too.

Finally not to mention #SuttonBinShame which was a council problem that he waded into and still isn't resolved.

[SilverSixer]

James P said:

SilverSixer said:

ash73 said:

techiedave said:

I may have been joking about the lady above but I tell you who I would think could carry it off

Tom Brake

Please anyone except Vince Cable. But it's a moot point anyhow, I could never vote LibDem while they maintain their current stance on Europe.

Well that's the point about Cable. He's likely to change the position on brexit if he can get it through conference. He's more akin to the Labour position on it.

I joined the LibDems this year before the election because they were the only ones offering a referendum on the brexit deal with an option to remain. That's what I want, and think should happen. Unpopular on here with the headbangers I know, but there it is. It's called 'democracy' and 'opposition' and 'legitimate dissent'. If the party position changes to supporting brexit and removing the remain option at the end of the process, I'll be handing my card back and possibly joining the Greens.

I would want Tom Brake for leader out of current MPs, perhaps Swinson. But it's not to be.

Brake is lucky to have kept his seat. To do that the LDs had to appeal to Labour voters to give him their votes. I've seen a lot of opposition to him locally and some labour supporters who did vote for him are now wondering why they gave him their vote as he's ignoring them.

His election expenses will be scrutinised due to volume of material and costs of paid deliveries as will support that he may have received from a local charity.

Based on his performances on to leading up to the election - he was embarrassed by Andrew Neill and then stopped appearing - he wouldn't be able to cope with the scrutiny that would come with leadership. He knows this which is why he's not put himself forward.

LD party locally and in council appear to be pretty unpleasant to their own members who break ranks too.

Finally not to mention #SuttonBinShame which was a council problem that he waded into and still isn't resolved.

Good local knowledge, interesting. Thanks.

[Halb]

techiedave said:

I do like Vince Cable in interviews. He seems to have the quietish slow patient delivery that many politicians could emulate.
I find Rees Mogg similar in his communication.

Yes, I do prefer that, 'thinking on it and answering' type, over the dalek soundbite 'teaorcoffeeteaorcoffee' sorts.

[anonymous-user]

Tim Farron regrets saying that gay sex isn't a sin.

He was under a lot of pressure apparently...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/10/t...

He also thinks it is ridiculous that you have to "Pretend not to have a faith" to be taken seriously in UK Politics and Government.

[BlackLabel]

I think it's ridiculous that you have to pretend not to believe in a tooth fairy to be taken seriously in UK Politics and Government.

[Skywalker]

Lord Marylebone said:

Tim Farron regrets saying that gay sex isn't a sin.

He was under a lot of pressure apparently...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/10/t...

He also thinks it is ridiculous that you have to "Pretend not to have a faith" to be taken seriously in UK Politics and Government.

Having listened to his interview - I take it that he means he deliberately lied and he does think gay sex is a sin.

Personal integrity..? Nope.

[dazwalsh]

Lord Marylebone said:

Tim Farron regrets saying that gay sex isn't a sin.

He was under a lot of pressure apparently...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/10/t...

He also thinks it is ridiculous that you have to "Pretend not to have a faith" to be taken seriously in UK Politics and Government.

You don't have to pretend not to have a faith you damn tool Farron, just be honest about your beliefs and not be wishy washy trying to please everyone. JRM shows you how it should be done.

[Hayek]

dazwalsh said:

Lord Marylebone said:

Tim Farron regrets saying that gay sex isn't a sin.

He was under a lot of pressure apparently...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/10/t...

He also thinks it is ridiculous that you have to "Pretend not to have a faith" to be taken seriously in UK Politics and Government.

You don't have to pretend not to have a faith you damn tool Farron, just be honest about your beliefs and not be wishy washy trying to please everyone. JRM shows you how it should be done.

Exactly. If you come over as apologetic for almost anything you are doomed to failure. If you double-down on most views it's surprising how well people seem to come out the other side of confrontations. The like-ability part of the brain must be quite tuned to how 'alpha' someone is, rather than the actual position being espoused.

[anonymous-user]

Tim Farron just wasn't taken seriously in UK Politics and Government.

[Halb]

Well just about the only thing he has going for him he has dissolved himself
He's very district council

[glazbagun]

Hayek said:

Exactly. If you come over as apologetic for almost anything you are doomed to failure. If you double-down on most views it's surprising how well people seem to come out the other side of confrontations. The like-ability part of the brain must be quite tuned to how 'alpha' someone is, rather than the actual position being espoused.

See Blair. There's a man who knows he'll be crucified if he gives an inch.

Further- Cleggs honesty over his tuition fee U-Turn did him no favours at all, wheras Trump lied more than any candidate ever and won an election because he has almost no sense of guilt or shame.

[Hayek]

glazbagun said:

Hayek said:

Exactly. If you come over as apologetic for almost anything you are doomed to failure. If you double-down on most views it's surprising how well people seem to come out the other side of confrontations. The like-ability part of the brain must be quite tuned to how 'alpha' someone is, rather than the actual position being espoused.

See Blair. There's a man who knows he'll be crucified if he gives an inch.

Further- Cleggs honesty over his tuition fee U-Turn did him no favours at all, wheras Trump lied more than any candidate ever and won an election because he has almost no sense of guilt or shame.

Yep also Farage when he'd occasionally come out with something new to him. I recall the '5th column' comment following some terror attack seemed to horrify many, but he didn't back off and probably won support overall.

I don't think it's because Trump has no sense of guilt or shame, it's because he's an expert on negotiation/persuasion.

Edit: Not quite relevant but I remember a story about Blair when some waiter working in the restaurant he was in attempted to perform a citizens arrest on him. Blair came out with something like 'lets talk about this' and the waiter quickly crumbled.

Edited by Hayek on Thursday 11th January 00:35

[glazbagun]

Hayek said:

Edit: Not quite relevant but I remember a story about Blair when some waiter working in the restaurant he was in attempted to perform a citizens arrest on him. Blair came out with something like 'lets talk about this' and the waiter quickly crumbled.

I'm quite sure I would lose a public argument over my own name if I was up against Blair.