Just how bad are the Swiss?
Discussion
I'm in the planning stages for our Euro trip in July which will include a few days of 'fun' in the Alps. I see a few peeps on here avoid Switzerland due to their ''hate of cars and foreigners''.
Now, we did a similar trip three years ago and had no issues with the Swiss but we was only in a pretty unassuming Mini diesel which didn't attract any attention. This year we will be in a very noisy V8 which does attract attention. We are only a single car, not a convoy or group so whats your advice? Still avoid the Swiss?
Now, we did a similar trip three years ago and had no issues with the Swiss but we was only in a pretty unassuming Mini diesel which didn't attract any attention. This year we will be in a very noisy V8 which does attract attention. We are only a single car, not a convoy or group so whats your advice? Still avoid the Swiss?
V8junkie said:
This year we will be in a very noisy V8 which does attract attention. We are only a single car, not a convoy or group so whats your advice? Still avoid the Swiss?
Yes. Six good reasons to avoid Switzerland:1. They have their own money, CHF, while all their neighbours have the EUR.
2. CH is eye wateringly *expensive*, far more than anywhere else nearby.
3. Very similar mountains and alpine passes nearby in France, Italy and Austria.
4. Swiss speeding fines are punitive and based on income.
5. Swiss motorway vignettes can't be bought for anytime less than a year, even when
you only want a week or two. So that's GBP 32 spent straight away.
6. The Swiss attitudes to foreigners seems - to me - to be that they are only really
interested in you so that they can drain your bank account.
I go to Austria instead. Generally, about a half to quarter of the price of CH and
the Austrians I find a lot easier to deal with.
dcb said:
Yes. Six good reasons to avoid Switzerland:
1. They have their own money, CHF, while all their neighbours have the EUR.
2. CH is eye wateringly *expensive*, far more than anywhere else nearby.
3. Very similar mountains and alpine passes nearby in France, Italy and Austria.
4. Swiss speeding fines are punitive and based on income.
5. Swiss motorway vignettes can't be bought for anytime less than a year, even when
you only want a week or two. So that's GBP 32 spent straight away.
6. The Swiss attitudes to foreigners seems - to me - to be that they are only really
interested in you so that they can drain your bank account.
I go to Austria instead. Generally, about a half to quarter of the price of CH and
the Austrians I find a lot easier to deal with.
But...1. They have their own money, CHF, while all their neighbours have the EUR.
2. CH is eye wateringly *expensive*, far more than anywhere else nearby.
3. Very similar mountains and alpine passes nearby in France, Italy and Austria.
4. Swiss speeding fines are punitive and based on income.
5. Swiss motorway vignettes can't be bought for anytime less than a year, even when
you only want a week or two. So that's GBP 32 spent straight away.
6. The Swiss attitudes to foreigners seems - to me - to be that they are only really
interested in you so that they can drain your bank account.
I go to Austria instead. Generally, about a half to quarter of the price of CH and
the Austrians I find a lot easier to deal with.
1. They will take euros, more often than not.
2. Can't really argue with that one, although Austria is not far behind in my experience.
3. Mountain passes will be better maintained in Switzerland (at least vs France and certainly Italy), you just have to do a 'sighting run' before you give it any welly.
4. Indeed, they treat habitual speeders more harshly than child molesters. See point 3.
5. You don't have to pay any tolls on the highways though - you'll rack up the 32 bucks in just a day or two touring in Italy/France.
6. This attitude extends to everyone, so not to be taken personally. That said, head to Ticino or Graubunden and they can be genuinely friendly and warm.
I'd say you'd be fool not to see what was available further south in Switzerland. Just hit cruise control for the highway slogs and you'll be fine. Take the Fluela pass from Davos for instance - no cameras, I've never seen a copper - but I have seen Porsche clubs convoying at speed, then you get to fill up at 80cents a litre in Livigno. Just avoid speeding in the big cities and their associated Cantons (counties/states) - Zurich, Geneva and Luzern are terrible, particularly the latter - riddled with cameras.
Beautiful place.
Did Basel to Milan run in 2004, flat out in an Evo V, hardly saw another car let alone a police car
That said, try a drive through the Vosges Mountains in France for a great drive on the way.
Italy can be death trap. Mountain roads suddenly become 'glassy' due to wear and have bugger all grip (like having your abs actuate at ### mph under light braking prior to a hairpin when moments before your on grippy Tarmac )
That said, the tunnel roads up the east side of lake como are well worth a blast after midnight.
Oh, and beware the hairpin at belagio, tail out slide at 15mph !
Did Basel to Milan run in 2004, flat out in an Evo V, hardly saw another car let alone a police car
That said, try a drive through the Vosges Mountains in France for a great drive on the way.
Italy can be death trap. Mountain roads suddenly become 'glassy' due to wear and have bugger all grip (like having your abs actuate at ### mph under light braking prior to a hairpin when moments before your on grippy Tarmac )
That said, the tunnel roads up the east side of lake como are well worth a blast after midnight.
Oh, and beware the hairpin at belagio, tail out slide at 15mph !
Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 31st January 22:28
I'd echo much of the above. A beautiful country but expect to spend a lot of £££. We took our time on the normal roads and made a bit of noise in the mountains (a red Ferrari 360) and nobody paid us much attention. Be careful and show a bit of respect and I'm sure you'll be fine.
To take our car through the mountains was truly special and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
To take our car through the mountains was truly special and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
Thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated.
TBH if the trip is anything like last time then we'll be slowing down or stopping to admire the view every mile so we won't be 'on it' that much and I'm sensible enough to not dog it through villages so with that in mind I think I'll keep my Swiss sections in.
Thinking back to my previous trip I can't recall seeing many police though I do remember getting flashed by a roadside camera within about a mile of the border!
Kyodo?
TBH if the trip is anything like last time then we'll be slowing down or stopping to admire the view every mile so we won't be 'on it' that much and I'm sensible enough to not dog it through villages so with that in mind I think I'll keep my Swiss sections in.
Thinking back to my previous trip I can't recall seeing many police though I do remember getting flashed by a roadside camera within about a mile of the border!
Kyodo?
some counter points:
- CH isn't really one country. French and German sides are quite different and think of each other as foreigners.
- it's never cheap, but their currency has been 'overvalued' for a few years now as foreign money moves in to CH as a safe haven. Swiss central bank has been trying to contain this problem.
-They've suffered more immigration than UK over last few decades and immigrant % now higher than UK.
- They do feel that foreigners sometimes pass through their country without being respectful. probably true.
- their attitude to speeding and fines generally is consistent and not discriminatory
that said, they are 'different'.
But if you turned the tables....
- CH isn't really one country. French and German sides are quite different and think of each other as foreigners.
- it's never cheap, but their currency has been 'overvalued' for a few years now as foreign money moves in to CH as a safe haven. Swiss central bank has been trying to contain this problem.
-They've suffered more immigration than UK over last few decades and immigrant % now higher than UK.
- They do feel that foreigners sometimes pass through their country without being respectful. probably true.
- their attitude to speeding and fines generally is consistent and not discriminatory
that said, they are 'different'.
But if you turned the tables....
Beautiful country with great roads, all kept in a fantastic condition.
First roadtrip we went we fell in love with the place, despite some of the high mountain passes being closed to snow, almost every road in the Alps is fantastic.
Second time, not so much.
3 of us in convoy, we get followed by a marked 5 series for about 2 miles. As we came up to a petrol station, 2 more marked cars pulled out and blocked the road, and directed us onto the forecourt of said petrol station. First thing to note, they all carry guns and are about 8ft tall, so look a tad menacing!
After sitting in the car waiting for a few minutes, the most senior guy comes over and explain we've been caught for speeding on a camera about 2 hours ago in a different part of the country (FYI their cameras are grey, and hidden down on the edge of road, so pretty difficult to spot).
We were almost relieved as we thought this can't be too bad, just pay the fine and get on our way. So he goes away to check with his colleagues in the other province on what the fine will be.
After about 10 minutes he wanders back and explains to us the fine. We were quite shocked to be fair, as he explained it was 1500 CHF! But hey that's not too bad really, split between 2 people per car its about £200 each. Then he re-explains to us. It's 1500 CHF per car. Holy sh!t!
They took about £3000 off of us at the roadside! Fortunately for us it was the first day of the trip so we had all our Euros and CHF in the cars, and managed to just scrape enough together to pay the fine. We did ask what would happen if we didn't have the money or wanted to protest the fine, answer being, they take the cars, we walk home and argue about it later.
After paying, we wanted to confirm that we were not going to be pursued for anything else and we were all paid up. The officer explained that yes we were paid, for this fine. He could not be sure at that point that we hadn't been caught on any other cameras across the country, and could therefore realistically face another fine and therefore confiscation of all the cars. This obviously put the fear of god in us, so after a full day of driving since 6am, now at 10pm we decided to get the hell out of Switzerland the fastest (but legal) way possible. There ensued a paranoid 2 hour drive, in the craziest thunderstorm I've ever experienced, to the French border, hoping that we weren't going to get pulled again for another misdemenaour earlier on that day.
In the end we slept for an hour in the cars in the car park of a closed French hotel, then travelled all the way down to the Verdon gorge where at 8pm I fell asleep quicker than I ever have before or since!
Also to note about 2 months later the 3 guys driving at the time received an official Swiss letter demanding another 300CHF for court costs, threatening if unpaid it would be chased through the UK courts and also they would not be allowed back into the country. 2 of my friends will not be returning to Switzerland in their lifetime!
First roadtrip we went we fell in love with the place, despite some of the high mountain passes being closed to snow, almost every road in the Alps is fantastic.
Second time, not so much.
3 of us in convoy, we get followed by a marked 5 series for about 2 miles. As we came up to a petrol station, 2 more marked cars pulled out and blocked the road, and directed us onto the forecourt of said petrol station. First thing to note, they all carry guns and are about 8ft tall, so look a tad menacing!
After sitting in the car waiting for a few minutes, the most senior guy comes over and explain we've been caught for speeding on a camera about 2 hours ago in a different part of the country (FYI their cameras are grey, and hidden down on the edge of road, so pretty difficult to spot).
We were almost relieved as we thought this can't be too bad, just pay the fine and get on our way. So he goes away to check with his colleagues in the other province on what the fine will be.
After about 10 minutes he wanders back and explains to us the fine. We were quite shocked to be fair, as he explained it was 1500 CHF! But hey that's not too bad really, split between 2 people per car its about £200 each. Then he re-explains to us. It's 1500 CHF per car. Holy sh!t!
They took about £3000 off of us at the roadside! Fortunately for us it was the first day of the trip so we had all our Euros and CHF in the cars, and managed to just scrape enough together to pay the fine. We did ask what would happen if we didn't have the money or wanted to protest the fine, answer being, they take the cars, we walk home and argue about it later.
After paying, we wanted to confirm that we were not going to be pursued for anything else and we were all paid up. The officer explained that yes we were paid, for this fine. He could not be sure at that point that we hadn't been caught on any other cameras across the country, and could therefore realistically face another fine and therefore confiscation of all the cars. This obviously put the fear of god in us, so after a full day of driving since 6am, now at 10pm we decided to get the hell out of Switzerland the fastest (but legal) way possible. There ensued a paranoid 2 hour drive, in the craziest thunderstorm I've ever experienced, to the French border, hoping that we weren't going to get pulled again for another misdemenaour earlier on that day.
In the end we slept for an hour in the cars in the car park of a closed French hotel, then travelled all the way down to the Verdon gorge where at 8pm I fell asleep quicker than I ever have before or since!
Also to note about 2 months later the 3 guys driving at the time received an official Swiss letter demanding another 300CHF for court costs, threatening if unpaid it would be chased through the UK courts and also they would not be allowed back into the country. 2 of my friends will not be returning to Switzerland in their lifetime!
lb3nson said:
First thing to note, they all carry guns
Almost all Euro coppers carry guns. Do not mess them about.lb3nson said:
It's 1500 CHF per car. Holy sh!t!
They took about £3000 off of us at the roadside!
Blimey. I would have wanted to see some evidence for that kind of money.They took about £3000 off of us at the roadside!
Did they show you how far over the limit you were ?
Money like that sounds to me like something crackers like 200 kph in a 50 kph limit.
lb3nson said:
After paying, we wanted to confirm that we were not going to be pursued for anything else and we were all paid up.
Always get a receipt. Always get the names of all police officers.This makes it easier to argue later.
For money like that I am surprised they expect you to hand it over then and there.
lb3nson said:
Also to note about 2 months later the 3 guys driving at the time received an official Swiss letter demanding another 300CHF for court costs,
The cheeky monkeys !lb3nson said:
threatening if unpaid it would be chased through the UK courts and also they would not be allowed back into the country. 2 of my friends will not be returning to Switzerland in their lifetime!
I also have no plans to return to CH anytime soon, but your story is extreme.lb3nson said:
Beautiful country with great roads, all kept in a fantastic condition.
First roadtrip we went we fell in love with the place, despite some of the high mountain passes being closed to snow, almost every road in the Alps is fantastic.
Second time, not so much.
3 of us in convoy, we get followed by a marked 5 series for about 2 miles. As we came up to a petrol station, 2 more marked cars pulled out and blocked the road, and directed us onto the forecourt of said petrol station. First thing to note, they all carry guns and are about 8ft tall, so look a tad menacing!
After sitting in the car waiting for a few minutes, the most senior guy comes over and explain we've been caught for speeding on a camera about 2 hours ago in a different part of the country (FYI their cameras are grey, and hidden down on the edge of road, so pretty difficult to spot).
We were almost relieved as we thought this can't be too bad, just pay the fine and get on our way. So he goes away to check with his colleagues in the other province on what the fine will be.
After about 10 minutes he wanders back and explains to us the fine. We were quite shocked to be fair, as he explained it was 1500 CHF! But hey that's not too bad really, split between 2 people per car its about £200 each. Then he re-explains to us. It's 1500 CHF per car. Holy sh!t!
They took about £3000 off of us at the roadside! Fortunately for us it was the first day of the trip so we had all our Euros and CHF in the cars, and managed to just scrape enough together to pay the fine. We did ask what would happen if we didn't have the money or wanted to protest the fine, answer being, they take the cars, we walk home and argue about it later.
After paying, we wanted to confirm that we were not going to be pursued for anything else and we were all paid up. The officer explained that yes we were paid, for this fine. He could not be sure at that point that we hadn't been caught on any other cameras across the country, and could therefore realistically face another fine and therefore confiscation of all the cars. This obviously put the fear of god in us, so after a full day of driving since 6am, now at 10pm we decided to get the hell out of Switzerland the fastest (but legal) way possible. There ensued a paranoid 2 hour drive, in the craziest thunderstorm I've ever experienced, to the French border, hoping that we weren't going to get pulled again for another misdemenaour earlier on that day.
In the end we slept for an hour in the cars in the car park of a closed French hotel, then travelled all the way down to the Verdon gorge where at 8pm I fell asleep quicker than I ever have before or since!
Also to note about 2 months later the 3 guys driving at the time received an official Swiss letter demanding another 300CHF for court costs, threatening if unpaid it would be chased through the UK courts and also they would not be allowed back into the country. 2 of my friends will not be returning to Switzerland in their lifetime!
EekFirst roadtrip we went we fell in love with the place, despite some of the high mountain passes being closed to snow, almost every road in the Alps is fantastic.
Second time, not so much.
3 of us in convoy, we get followed by a marked 5 series for about 2 miles. As we came up to a petrol station, 2 more marked cars pulled out and blocked the road, and directed us onto the forecourt of said petrol station. First thing to note, they all carry guns and are about 8ft tall, so look a tad menacing!
After sitting in the car waiting for a few minutes, the most senior guy comes over and explain we've been caught for speeding on a camera about 2 hours ago in a different part of the country (FYI their cameras are grey, and hidden down on the edge of road, so pretty difficult to spot).
We were almost relieved as we thought this can't be too bad, just pay the fine and get on our way. So he goes away to check with his colleagues in the other province on what the fine will be.
After about 10 minutes he wanders back and explains to us the fine. We were quite shocked to be fair, as he explained it was 1500 CHF! But hey that's not too bad really, split between 2 people per car its about £200 each. Then he re-explains to us. It's 1500 CHF per car. Holy sh!t!
They took about £3000 off of us at the roadside! Fortunately for us it was the first day of the trip so we had all our Euros and CHF in the cars, and managed to just scrape enough together to pay the fine. We did ask what would happen if we didn't have the money or wanted to protest the fine, answer being, they take the cars, we walk home and argue about it later.
After paying, we wanted to confirm that we were not going to be pursued for anything else and we were all paid up. The officer explained that yes we were paid, for this fine. He could not be sure at that point that we hadn't been caught on any other cameras across the country, and could therefore realistically face another fine and therefore confiscation of all the cars. This obviously put the fear of god in us, so after a full day of driving since 6am, now at 10pm we decided to get the hell out of Switzerland the fastest (but legal) way possible. There ensued a paranoid 2 hour drive, in the craziest thunderstorm I've ever experienced, to the French border, hoping that we weren't going to get pulled again for another misdemenaour earlier on that day.
In the end we slept for an hour in the cars in the car park of a closed French hotel, then travelled all the way down to the Verdon gorge where at 8pm I fell asleep quicker than I ever have before or since!
Also to note about 2 months later the 3 guys driving at the time received an official Swiss letter demanding another 300CHF for court costs, threatening if unpaid it would be chased through the UK courts and also they would not be allowed back into the country. 2 of my friends will not be returning to Switzerland in their lifetime!
How fast were you clocked at ?
I did blast across Switzerland for about two hours full throttle and now I think I might have been very lucky
Three weeks in Italy where no one cared makes you more relaxed.
lb3nson said:
I can't remember the exact figure, but I believe it was around 75mph in a 50mph zone. Obviously this is 50% over the limit, so no complaints there. Unfortunately we weren't aware that NSL on single carriage way roads in Switzerland is 50mph not 60mph, so this didn't help!
Oops, 140 would have made me very unpopular then.
55palfers said:
I wonder how much Nazi gold is still sitting in their vaults?
Probably not much these days. They are trying to clean up their act.Mind you, they used to accept all sorts of dirty money from tin pot dictators,
drugs cartels and corrupt businessmen.
I think even those groups have worked out that it is safer to store
it elsewhere these days, probably somewhere small in the Caribbean.
I have been to Switzerland several times and always entered through the checkpoint at Basel, where you have to stop and pay up for your vignette. The last time I went through a different entry point and was waved through without having to stop.
I then forgot all about the vignette issue until I was pulled over at the top of a slip road by the police ...... who then asked for the 200 euro fine, duly taken on my credit card, even though I could have literally walked to a service area and purchased one.
He also checked all the paperwork for the car, V5, MOT, insurance and my license. All of which I had put in the car for the first ever time in the hundred or so times I had been driving to Europe.
No doubt the fine would have been heavier if those documents had not been present.
I then forgot all about the vignette issue until I was pulled over at the top of a slip road by the police ...... who then asked for the 200 euro fine, duly taken on my credit card, even though I could have literally walked to a service area and purchased one.
He also checked all the paperwork for the car, V5, MOT, insurance and my license. All of which I had put in the car for the first ever time in the hundred or so times I had been driving to Europe.
No doubt the fine would have been heavier if those documents had not been present.
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