Undercover Panorama report reveals prison chaos
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38931580
On tonight.
Looks grim, from the bits I've seen on the telly, just.
On tonight.
Looks grim, from the bits I've seen on the telly, just.
Cuts to prison staffing have made for a very volatile atmosphere and open drug use. Ridiculous that a training prison has colouring pictures in as "education". Politicians need to decide if prisons are just somewhere to keep people for a bit or actually try and rehabilitate the inmates and provide them with an alternative to crime when they are released.
greygoose said:
Cuts to prison staffing have made for a very volatile atmosphere and open drug use. Ridiculous that a training prison has colouring pictures in as "education". Politicians need to decide if prisons are just somewhere to keep people for a bit or actually try and rehabilitate the inmates and provide them with an alternative to crime when they are released.
I wouldn't want to work in a prison and think the people who do have a tough job. But...Are cuts to staffing really the root cause of drug use inside them?
As a "closed" system (in theory), surely it doesn't need huge quantities of staff to prevent contraband getting in?
Quite possibly naivety on my part, but I'd have thought some better process/procedure, at the likely expense of "rights" admittedly, could stop it in its tracks?
(I also suspect colouring in might be beyond some of the people inside...as long as that's not all that's on offer. Which I doubt it is).
Murph7355 said:
As a "closed" system (in theory), surely it doesn't need huge quantities of staff to prevent contraband getting in?
Quite possibly naivety on my part, but I'd have thought some better process/procedure, at the likely expense of "rights" admittedly, could stop it in its tracks?
Theres a quadcopter on amazon for $1300 which has a range of 5kmQuite possibly naivety on my part, but I'd have thought some better process/procedure, at the likely expense of "rights" admittedly, could stop it in its tracks?
https://www.amazon.com/DJI-Phantom-Quadcopter-Batt...
Presumably it's quite easy to get drugs into a prison with a quadcopter. How would they stop it?
amusingduck said:
Murph7355 said:
As a "closed" system (in theory), surely it doesn't need huge quantities of staff to prevent contraband getting in?
Quite possibly naivety on my part, but I'd have thought some better process/procedure, at the likely expense of "rights" admittedly, could stop it in its tracks?
Theres a quadcopter on amazon for $1300 which has a range of 5kmQuite possibly naivety on my part, but I'd have thought some better process/procedure, at the likely expense of "rights" admittedly, could stop it in its tracks?
https://www.amazon.com/DJI-Phantom-Quadcopter-Batt...
Presumably it's quite easy to get drugs into a prison with a quadcopter. How would they stop it?
Prisons have the same problem as the armed forces. In the Internet age, everyone now knows a prison officer spends their days getting seagulled and as a result the prison service finds it hard to recruit new frontline staff.
What's more, the pendulum has swung wildly in favour of prisoners. The guards used to spend their days beating up prisoners. Now, they spend their days dropping off PlayStation games on the nonce wing. The job is no fun anymore.
What's more, the pendulum has swung wildly in favour of prisoners. The guards used to spend their days beating up prisoners. Now, they spend their days dropping off PlayStation games on the nonce wing. The job is no fun anymore.
Oakey said:
This is cheaper, autonomous, and you can get lkots of them for total coverage 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QcfZGDvHU8
http://projectsentrygun.rudolphlabs.com/
Although.. her Majesty has access to assets much more suitable for this
greygoose said:
Politicians need to decide if prisons are just somewhere to keep people for a bit or actually try and rehabilitate the inmates and provide them with an alternative to crime when they are released.
If you cannot prevent the influx of drugs and activities of gangs inside, you have zero hope of rehabilitation in many cases and tend to run the risk of everyone who goes through the system coming out more criminalised.IMHO, punishment, for those who thoroughly deserve it, should be punishment and for the rest, rehabilitation should be the aim.
The whole prison service - the quantity and quality of jails and the staff - seems beleaguered and incapable of managing the task of dealing with the criminal underclass.
Edited by Digga on Monday 13th February 12:29
Yipper said:
Prisons have the same problem as the armed forces. In the Internet age, everyone now knows a prison officer spends their days getting seagulled and as a result the prison service finds it hard to recruit new frontline staff.
What's more, the pendulum has swung wildly in favour of prisoners. The guards used to spend their days beating up prisoners. Now, they spend their days dropping off PlayStation games on the nonce wing. The job is no fun anymore.
Just for the record what have you based the above on?What's more, the pendulum has swung wildly in favour of prisoners. The guards used to spend their days beating up prisoners. Now, they spend their days dropping off PlayStation games on the nonce wing. The job is no fun anymore.
Things you've read on the internet?
La Liga said:
It must b bad if the government are sort-of acknowledging how bad things are. I certainly wouldn't want to work inside one.
It depends on the prison. Youth & short stay prisons are worst, lots of testosterone, aggression and very loud 24 hour a day noise. Lifer prisons are better, older inmates, much less aggression and calmer as they will be living there for the next decade or so. The food is much better - enhanced prisoners can cook for themselves.Drugs, specifically spice, is a major problem causing behavioural issues and upsetting the internal prison economy. The issue is starting be be better controlled by better drug testing and better control of getting the stuff inside.
eldar said:
It depends on the prison. Youth & short stay prisons are worst, lots of testosterone, aggression and very loud 24 hour a day noise. Lifer prisons are better, older inmates, much less aggression and calmer as they will be living there for the next decade or so. The food is much better - enhanced prisoners can cook for themselves.
Drugs, specifically spice, is a major problem causing behavioural issues and upsetting the internal prison economy. The issue is starting be be better controlled by better drug testing and better control of getting the stuff inside.
This is true. I work at one but the worst I've worked is the YOI's. So much aggression, gang culture, 'respek' issues etc.Drugs, specifically spice, is a major problem causing behavioural issues and upsetting the internal prison economy. The issue is starting be be better controlled by better drug testing and better control of getting the stuff inside.
HMP Stafford (where Rolf resides)must be a real cushy job, it's all old grandads and nonces who've been messing about with kids. They don't cause many problems there.
But it's getting worse where I work. The older officers are giving up early, they've had enough. But what they're getting replaced with is laughable. One girl is a real cutie, about 17yo, 5'2", 7 stone and gorgeous. Really nice to talk to, not a diva. But how is she going to force some 18 stone meathead back into his cell who's just been pushing 200kg in the gym? Or seizing some spice from the dealer on House 2 with his mates laughing at her. Diversity is good in most ways but do we REALLY need little girls in CAT A/B/C jails?
I'd like to see a lot of ex-forces in the service, they know how to handle situations.
Fastchas said:
This is true. I work at one but the worst I've worked is the YOI's. So much aggression, gang culture, 'respek' issues etc.
HMP Stafford (where Rolf resides)must be a real cushy job, it's all old grandads and nonces who've been messing about with kids. They don't cause many problems there.
But it's getting worse where I work. The older officers are giving up early, they've had enough. But what they're getting replaced with is laughable. One girl is a real cutie, about 17yo, 5'2", 7 stone and gorgeous. Really nice to talk to, not a diva. But how is she going to force some 18 stone meathead back into his cell who's just been pushing 200kg in the gym? Or seizing some spice from the dealer on House 2 with his mates laughing at her. Diversity is good in most ways but do we REALLY need little girls in CAT A/B/C jails?
I'd like to see a lot of ex-forces in the service, they know how to handle situations.
First up much respect (the proper sort HMP Stafford (where Rolf resides)must be a real cushy job, it's all old grandads and nonces who've been messing about with kids. They don't cause many problems there.
But it's getting worse where I work. The older officers are giving up early, they've had enough. But what they're getting replaced with is laughable. One girl is a real cutie, about 17yo, 5'2", 7 stone and gorgeous. Really nice to talk to, not a diva. But how is she going to force some 18 stone meathead back into his cell who's just been pushing 200kg in the gym? Or seizing some spice from the dealer on House 2 with his mates laughing at her. Diversity is good in most ways but do we REALLY need little girls in CAT A/B/C jails?
I'd like to see a lot of ex-forces in the service, they know how to handle situations.
) for doing the job you do. I wouldn't want to.I also agree with your latter comments. A number of jobs have been PC'd to the point where there are issues or unnecessary extra costs IMO (fire brigade being one - my old man was a fireman, I have some good mates in the brigade and was destined down that path myself at one point. Glad I didn't now sadly).
Though arming guards with stronger policy against subordination that lawyers weren't able to undermine would seem like a good start point, and control over what goes into prisons (notwithstanding the impossible to sort out attack of the drones of course
) would surely help? Discipline can't work if the miscreants know any "punishments" can be unwound by a half decent lawyer.Fastchas said:
But what they're getting replaced with is laughable. One girl is a real cutie, about 17yo, 5'2", 7 stone and gorgeous. Really nice to talk to, not a diva.
Women often can manage conflict against men much more effectively than other men. That may not apply in prison to the same degree, for whatever reason, but it certainly does outside at least. eldar said:
It depends on the prison. Youth & short stay prisons are worst, lots of testosterone, aggression and very loud 24 hour a day noise. Lifer prisons are better, older inmates, much less aggression and calmer as they will be living there for the next decade or so. The food is much better - enhanced prisoners can cook for themselves.
Drugs, specifically spice, is a major problem causing behavioural issues and upsetting the internal prison economy. The issue is starting be be better controlled by better drug testing and better control of getting the stuff inside.
No doubt some are better / worse than others, but overall indications like inmate on inmate violence, inmate on guard violence and suicides all at record highs are large red flags as to the state of our prisons. Prison inspection reports make grim reading. Drugs, specifically spice, is a major problem causing behavioural issues and upsetting the internal prison economy. The issue is starting be be better controlled by better drug testing and better control of getting the stuff inside.
Murph7355 said:
Fastchas said:
This is true. I work at one but the worst I've worked is the YOI's. So much aggression, gang culture, 'respek' issues etc.
HMP Stafford (where Rolf resides)must be a real cushy job, it's all old grandads and nonces who've been messing about with kids. They don't cause many problems there.
But it's getting worse where I work. The older officers are giving up early, they've had enough. But what they're getting replaced with is laughable. One girl is a real cutie, about 17yo, 5'2", 7 stone and gorgeous. Really nice to talk to, not a diva. But how is she going to force some 18 stone meathead back into his cell who's just been pushing 200kg in the gym? Or seizing some spice from the dealer on House 2 with his mates laughing at her. Diversity is good in most ways but do we REALLY need little girls in CAT A/B/C jails?
I'd like to see a lot of ex-forces in the service, they know how to handle situations.
First up much respect (the proper sort HMP Stafford (where Rolf resides)must be a real cushy job, it's all old grandads and nonces who've been messing about with kids. They don't cause many problems there.
But it's getting worse where I work. The older officers are giving up early, they've had enough. But what they're getting replaced with is laughable. One girl is a real cutie, about 17yo, 5'2", 7 stone and gorgeous. Really nice to talk to, not a diva. But how is she going to force some 18 stone meathead back into his cell who's just been pushing 200kg in the gym? Or seizing some spice from the dealer on House 2 with his mates laughing at her. Diversity is good in most ways but do we REALLY need little girls in CAT A/B/C jails?
I'd like to see a lot of ex-forces in the service, they know how to handle situations.
) for doing the job you do. I wouldn't want to.I also agree with your latter comments. A number of jobs have been PC'd to the point where there are issues or unnecessary extra costs IMO (fire brigade being one - my old man was a fireman, I have some good mates in the brigade and was destined down that path myself at one point. Glad I didn't now sadly).
Though arming guards with stronger policy against subordination that lawyers weren't able to undermine would seem like a good start point, and control over what goes into prisons (notwithstanding the impossible to sort out attack of the drones of course
) would surely help? Discipline can't work if the miscreants know any "punishments" can be unwound by a half decent lawyer.
From the BBC Panorama report:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38931583
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38931583
BBC said:
HMP Northumberland is run by Sodexo Justice Services.
It was privatised in 2014, when the government was aiming to cut £500m from the prisons budget.
To win the contract, Sodexo pledged to save the taxpayer £130m over 15 years. Two hundred jobs, including 96 prison officer posts, were cut.
At the time of the deal, the Prison Officers Association warned it could result in "escapes and riots".
HMP Northumberland is a training prison that is meant to offer a range of education and training programmes to prepare inmates for release.
The Panorama reporter witnessed some inmates colouring in pictures of the children's cartoon character Peppa Pig in an "employability skills" class provided by an outside contractor, Novus.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry...It was privatised in 2014, when the government was aiming to cut £500m from the prisons budget.
To win the contract, Sodexo pledged to save the taxpayer £130m over 15 years. Two hundred jobs, including 96 prison officer posts, were cut.
At the time of the deal, the Prison Officers Association warned it could result in "escapes and riots".
HMP Northumberland is a training prison that is meant to offer a range of education and training programmes to prepare inmates for release.
The Panorama reporter witnessed some inmates colouring in pictures of the children's cartoon character Peppa Pig in an "employability skills" class provided by an outside contractor, Novus.
Edited by Police State on Monday 13th February 17:01
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