Undercover Panorama report reveals prison chaos
Discussion
La Liga said:
o doubt some are better / worse than others, but overall indications like inmate on inmate violence, inmate on guard violence and suicides all at record highs are large red flags as to the state of our prisons. Prison inspection reports make grim reading.
Very true. The prime reasons are falling staff numbers, spice and the fall out from the Blair Vs Howard competition to create most prisoners.It really is time for a rethink, get people who shouldn't be in prison out doing something useful rather than just being a drain.
eldar said:
Very true. The prime reasons are falling staff numbers, spice and the fall out from the Blair Vs Howard competition to create most prisoners.
It really is time for a rethink, get people who shouldn't be in prison out doing something useful rather than just being a drain.
I would think the first (staff numbers) wouldn't be such a problem if the latter 2 were addressed? (The middle one being synonymous with general disregard for authority).It really is time for a rethink, get people who shouldn't be in prison out doing something useful rather than just being a drain.
Totally agree on the latter, though am not totally sure where lines should be drawn. No such thing as a victimless crime etc...but I do wonder how many are inside for fraud, speeding and other stuff that may be better off "rehabilitated" in other ways.
Murph7355 said:
Totally agree on the latter, though am not totally sure where lines should be drawn. No such thing as a victimless crime etc...but I do wonder how many are inside for fraud, speeding and other stuff that may be better off "rehabilitated" in other ways.
This gives you an idea of the offences / proportions. A remaining of % will cover everything not covered on there. 
Lynchie999 said:
amusingduck said:
Murph7355 said:
As a "closed" system (in theory), surely it doesn't need huge quantities of staff to prevent contraband getting in?
Quite possibly naivety on my part, but I'd have thought some better process/procedure, at the likely expense of "rights" admittedly, could stop it in its tracks?
Theres a quadcopter on amazon for $1300 which has a range of 5kmQuite possibly naivety on my part, but I'd have thought some better process/procedure, at the likely expense of "rights" admittedly, could stop it in its tracks?
https://www.amazon.com/DJI-Phantom-Quadcopter-Batt...
Presumably it's quite easy to get drugs into a prison with a quadcopter. How would they stop it?
Firstly it helps keep them under control as most prisons now function on the goodwill of inmates. Take away their drugs etc you WILL lose control very quickly.
There used to be league tables for drugs finds. In effect the more drugs and contraband found by a prison the more it was seen to have a contraband problem which made it look bad so the incentive to search drops off.
Then of course you get into inmates rights and lack of staffing making cell searching more difficult and so on.
A lot of prisons have netting however it costs a lot of money to put in and also costs money to maintain.
Most prisons used to work hard at reducing re offending however prison cutbacks have scuppered most of that.
If you hear the government claim they are focussing heavily on Reducing re offending feel free to laugh yourself to death. They closed one of the best reducing re offending prisons in the first round of prison closures.
While a lot of the reducing re offending programmes are run by groups outside the prison there is also no point having them there if there are not enough staff to let inmates get to them.
Worse is still to come so don't worry. Its on its knees but isn't flats out on the ground rapidly bleeding out just yet.
Btw. How long do people think it will take to train and security clear each of the supposed 2500 new prison officers if they somehow magically manage to FIND 2500 people to apply for a job where they are at high risk of being physically attacked every day at work for the same pay as a job at Maccy D's?
Most prisons used to work hard at reducing re offending however prison cutbacks have scuppered most of that.
If you hear the government claim they are focussing heavily on Reducing re offending feel free to laugh yourself to death. They closed one of the best reducing re offending prisons in the first round of prison closures.
While a lot of the reducing re offending programmes are run by groups outside the prison there is also no point having them there if there are not enough staff to let inmates get to them.
Worse is still to come so don't worry. Its on its knees but isn't flats out on the ground rapidly bleeding out just yet.
Btw. How long do people think it will take to train and security clear each of the supposed 2500 new prison officers if they somehow magically manage to FIND 2500 people to apply for a job where they are at high risk of being physically attacked every day at work for the same pay as a job at Maccy D's?
Edited by frankenstein12 on Monday 13th February 19:10
Well this is making grim viewing.
WTF is wrong with people?
The stats about the reading age of prisoners are disgraceful.
I'm all for prison welfare but I can't help but think that many low-life's will carry on their pathetic ways wherever they are.
Sodexo aren't coming out well either. What a surprise.
WTF is wrong with people?
The stats about the reading age of prisoners are disgraceful.
I'm all for prison welfare but I can't help but think that many low-life's will carry on their pathetic ways wherever they are.
Sodexo aren't coming out well either. What a surprise.
the thing is look on here, people will shout from the roofs for perps to be locked up. it costs money to lock them up and paying as minimal as possible counts to this cost. Surely we should look at alternatives ways to punish people, as they aren't going to put more money in the prisons.
Smiler. said:
Well this is making grim viewing.
WTF is wrong with people?
The stats about the reading age of prisoners are disgraceful.
I'm all for prison welfare but I can't help but think that many low-life's will carry on their pathetic ways wherever they are.
Sodexo aren't coming out well either. What a surprise.
Unfortunately private prisons have even worse problems than public with regards to maintaining control of inmates as the Guards are members of the public nor civil servants and as such are subject to different rules.WTF is wrong with people?
The stats about the reading age of prisoners are disgraceful.
I'm all for prison welfare but I can't help but think that many low-life's will carry on their pathetic ways wherever they are.
Sodexo aren't coming out well either. What a surprise.
Watching this, I think this shows that privately run prisons do not work if they are run as a business to make money. One member of staff (notice I did not call the a "Prison Officer") to 70 prisoners. What control do they have. NONE.
The colouring in of Peppa Pig is nothing as it could've been posted out for a child. It happens all the time. The hole in the fence is a worry but the wing the was past its sell by date is nothing new, but the non working alarms are.
In my mind the public run prisons are the better run ones.
The colouring in of Peppa Pig is nothing as it could've been posted out for a child. It happens all the time. The hole in the fence is a worry but the wing the was past its sell by date is nothing new, but the non working alarms are.
In my mind the public run prisons are the better run ones.
egor110 said:
Gecko1978 said:
There is a prison in the US where I think inmates are housed in tents seems cheap not sure how they keep control though
Being armed with shotguns helps.We have laws so prison officers don't beat up inmates so same would apply woth shooting. Would fear of death deter inmates from running out of the tent to collect their spice. I would hope so buy if not you might have to conclude such thought paths were not conducive to employment any way
Murph7355 said:
I would think the first (staff numbers) wouldn't be such a problem if the latter 2 were addressed? (The middle one being synonymous with general disregard for authority).
Totally agree on the latter, though am not totally sure where lines should be drawn. No such thing as a victimless crime etc...but I do wonder how many are inside for fraud, speeding and other stuff that may be better off "rehabilitated" in other ways.
We need to decide what prison is for. Is it punishment, deterrent, sweeping the bad people out of sight or rehabilitating them? A lot of the prison population are societies failures - mental problems, low intelligence or simply disorganised.Totally agree on the latter, though am not totally sure where lines should be drawn. No such thing as a victimless crime etc...but I do wonder how many are inside for fraud, speeding and other stuff that may be better off "rehabilitated" in other ways.
For the latter group, possibly 30%, prison is a poor choice and there are other things that could be done.
Holland has an odd problem, not enough criminals to fill their prisons!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/n...
La Liga said:
his gives you an idea of the offences / proportions. A remaining of % will cover everything not covered on there. ...
Ta. On the face of it nothing in there that really warrants not being where they are then.eldar said:
We need to decide what prison is for. Is it punishment, deterrent, sweeping the bad people out of sight or rehabilitating them? A lot of the prison population are societies failures - mental problems, low intelligence or simply disorganised.
For the latter group, possibly 30%, prison is a poor choice and there are other things that could be done.
...
Possibly.For the latter group, possibly 30%, prison is a poor choice and there are other things that could be done.
...
eldar said:
...
Holland has an odd problem, not enough criminals to fill their prisons!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/n...
Shame they have a wait list of Belgian and Norwegian crims. We could add to that queue (and hope Dutch cops don't get better at solving crime Holland has an odd problem, not enough criminals to fill their prisons!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/n...
).I'd probably more advocate outsourcing it to Thailand
Police State said:
BBC said:
...The Panorama reporter witnessed some inmates colouring in pictures of the children's cartoon character Peppa Pig in an "employability skills" class provided by an outside contractor, Novus.
eldar said:
Very true. The prime reasons are falling staff numbers, spice and the fall out from the Blair Vs Howard competition to create most prisoners.
It really is time for a rethink, get people who shouldn't be in prison out doing something useful rather than just being a drain.
And which people are those, its pretty difficult to get sent down for longer than 90 days but anyway really want to know which people dont deserve to be in prison. It really is time for a rethink, get people who shouldn't be in prison out doing something useful rather than just being a drain.
Lets be honest here, cutting the budget or not increasing the budget is the real issue here, tory goverment keeps telling us that cuts can be implemented successfuly, while everything gets run into the ground just to keep simple/stupid people voting tory
If you ask me, prisons should not be rehabilitation centers, people dont want to be rehabilitated.
If you are sent down for more than 5 years you should be sent to eastern europe or a country outside the eu to do your time imo . I hear Hungary its cushty at the moment but serbia probably better
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