Undercover Panorama report reveals prison chaos

[SamR380]

ChemicalChaos said:

Why can we not simply follow the American model of profit-making prisons? Problem solved.

Ahaha haha good one. Problem 'solved'.

[frankenstein12]

ChemicalChaos said:

Why can we not simply follow the American model of profit-making prisons? Problem solved.

Because the AMerican Model does not work.

In some cases the UK model works extremely well in terms of reducing re offending. Not everyone in prison and who keeps coming back wants to be there.

In a lot of cases the people in prison have come from backgrounds where it is all theyknew or were given opportunity for.
There is a huge amount of people in the prisons who can barely read/write or count which given its required for most jobs even things like driving is a major issue.

Do the UK prisons have funding issues or absorb a huge amount of money? Well yes unfortunately due to the government and the way it disfunctions like in all major Civil service areas like the police NHS MOD etc.

Locking people up and throwing away the key is not a solution nor is selling prisons off to the private sector as the private sector prisons dont function much better than public in fact in many cases they are worse value for money.

What IS needed for the UK prison service is a review of sentencing and punishment and re offending reduction.

From my personal view I think a sharp shock sentence for first timers would be of more benefit. Put them in a prison and allow them out of their cells for either education or training workhsops to be run for 8 hrs a day.

Restrict visits to once a month for the first 12 months of sentence.
Provide post sentence support in the form of a councillor for them to call if they feel they are at risk of re offending. Provide training to assist them with getting a proper job and so on.

The present system unfortuntely simply turns into a revolving door. Inmates have too much freedom and therefore access to illegal items.

[williamp]

frankenstein12 said:

Ziplobb said:

surely the mobile phone issue is dealt with easily by jamming ? it cannot be beyond technology to do this near a prison

Up till recently it was a bit too complicated and costly however I believe there is talk of bringing in jamming systems once the present upgrades are complete.

thats my understanding too: its very hard to jam aa mobile phone signal, and you only need someone outside the walls providing a wifi hotspot and you'll need to start over again. Maybe turning the prison into a big faraday cage would be a better solution (and possibly help prevent drones/things being thrown over.

And a phone like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/J8-Smallest-Mobile-LATEST...

can be hidden (well, several...) where you're not allowed to search...

[Mikebentley]

I left the prison service 2yrs ago after nearly 20years, 18 as a Senior Officer working in Cat B locals for 15 and finishing in a Cat A High Security. When I started it was reasonable money for the responsibility and I progressed very quickly. I was good at my job and got the job done correctly. Following the economic downturn it was decided to freeze public sector pay rises. Yes it's not just teachers ,nurses, firemen and police but the other army of men and women who face daily what most people understandably choose to not think of. It was my normal to deal with horrendous situations of violence, suicide attempts, murders, sexual assaults, drug misuse (prescription and illegal). All whilst working within ever changing rules and regulations and with ever decreasing resources. The majority of staff are superb and I am deeply proud of the work I did. Our society generally respects and applauds the work done by those public sector workers I have mentioned but it's about time people had equal respect for prison officers. I worked with, controlled and managed some of the most notorious and dangerous people in society with ever decreasing resources but in the end wasn't prepared to be treated like @@@t any longer.

[Jambo85]

williamp said:

And a phone like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/J8-Smallest-Mobile-LATEST...

can be hidden (well, several...) where you're not allowed to search...

And there goes my work day reading the amazon reviews... 7 Aprill 2017 "fits in the arse fine"

[BlackLabel]

More than 70 prisoners released by mistake in 2016-17 amid violence surge. Official figures reveal a record 71 convicted criminals or suspects were mistakenly freed in England and Wales

[Fastchas]

I'm not surprised.
The sentence calculations are worked out with a pencil by a human and there are so many factors ie different sentence rules, acts and different calculations have to take in account date of offence etc. as different rules apply. It's mind boggling.
If someone devised a computer program it would be better.

[loafer123]

Mikebentley said:

I left the prison service 2yrs ago after nearly 20years, 18 as a Senior Officer working in Cat B locals for 15 and finishing in a Cat A High Security. When I started it was reasonable money for the responsibility and I progressed very quickly. I was good at my job and got the job done correctly. Following the economic downturn it was decided to freeze public sector pay rises. Yes it's not just teachers ,nurses, firemen and police but the other army of men and women who face daily what most people understandably choose to not think of. It was my normal to deal with horrendous situations of violence, suicide attempts, murders, sexual assaults, drug misuse (prescription and illegal). All whilst working within ever changing rules and regulations and with ever decreasing resources. The majority of staff are superb and I am deeply proud of the work I did. Our society generally respects and applauds the work done by those public sector workers I have mentioned but it's about time people had equal respect for prison officers. I worked with, controlled and managed some of the most notorious and dangerous people in society with ever decreasing resources but in the end wasn't prepared to be treated like @@@t any longer.

Would you be willing to indicate roughly your final salary, so we can understand whether you were paid adequately to bear the difficult work and working conditions you describe?

[Murph7355]

Fastchas said:

...
If someone devised a computer program it would be better.

Or simpler sentences/parole details.

[frankenstein12]

loafer123 said:

Mikebentley said:

I left the prison service 2yrs ago after nearly 20years, 18 as a Senior Officer working in Cat B locals for 15 and finishing in a Cat A High Security. When I started it was reasonable money for the responsibility and I progressed very quickly. I was good at my job and got the job done correctly. Following the economic downturn it was decided to freeze public sector pay rises. Yes it's not just teachers ,nurses, firemen and police but the other army of men and women who face daily what most people understandably choose to not think of. It was my normal to deal with horrendous situations of violence, suicide attempts, murders, sexual assaults, drug misuse (prescription and illegal). All whilst working within ever changing rules and regulations and with ever decreasing resources. The majority of staff are superb and I am deeply proud of the work I did. Our society generally respects and applauds the work done by those public sector workers I have mentioned but it's about time people had equal respect for prison officers. I worked with, controlled and managed some of the most notorious and dangerous people in society with ever decreasing resources but in the end wasn't prepared to be treated like @@@t any longer.

Would you be willing to indicate roughly your final salary, so we can understand whether you were paid adequately to bear the difficult work and working conditions you describe?

Its not as simple as final salary. Due to low salary Civil service staff are compensated (normally) with generous holidays etc which means they may only do 8-9 months work in a year but their salary is based over 12 months..

These days the starting salary is roughly £21000 to £38000 depending on experience and length of service.

https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/job-p...

Which is not a lot of money to be spat at, bitten, punched, stabbed, strangled, verbally abused and having yourself and your family threatened amongst other things on a day to day basis.


Not a job I would do these days no matter how much pay.

Funniest/most worrying thing seen recently is posters/billboards at the entrances to the prisons....

Do you have what it takes? Enquire now about becoming a prison officer.

So I can only assume they are targetting visiting family and friends of those in prison. Genius!

Edited by frankenstein12 on Thursday 27th July 20:23

[loafer123]

Thanks...it certainly seems to be a tough job for modest reward.

[frankenstein12]

Aaaand we have another prison riot (thats made it into the press they happen more often than reported)

Tick tock the clock is ticking to full meltdown. Prisons are starting to ban smoking for inmates....

[Tryke3]

frankenstein12 said:

Aaaand we have another prison riot (thats made it into the press they happen more often than reported)

Tick tock the clock is ticking to full meltdown. Prisons are starting to ban smoking for inmates....

Look another thing the tories promised to fix 7 years ago, in total meltdown

[Digga]

Tryke3 said:

Look another thing the tories promised to fix 7 years ago, in total meltdown

I have to agree that the Tories, May specifically in her previous role, have been horrendous for both national security and law and order. It's difficult for the public - those not involved in the front line - to see how badly the police and prison services are being affected.

Of course the criminal classes know, only too well, and relish the knowledge that, at certain times and certain places, they can rob, steal and assault without fear of being apprehended. They also know that, in the event they are convicted of anything, prison overcrowding will get their joke sentence cut in half anyway.

[andym1603]

Digga said:

prison overcrowding will get their joke sentence cut in half anyway.

"Overcrowding" does not determine the length of sentence. You have to thank the law makers for that. Even then 50% remission is only for short term prisoners. Long termers still have to do the 2/3rds of sentence. Or is this just Scottish Law?