45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 2

45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 2

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TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Wednesday 26th July 2017
quotequote all
XM5ER said:
TTwiggy said:
The gist of that article is that the gangs are composed of US-born criminals who tend to pray on recent immigrants. Which is the opposite of what Trump claimed.
That's a bit of a stretch of interpretation. I'm glad we have a few miles of ocean between us and them as they make ISIS look like amateurs.
The article said that the original gang members were El-Salvadorian immigrants. Many of them were sent back under legislation brought in in 1996 and now run the international gangs from 'home'. The gang members in the USA are US-born. They may not be 'white American' but they are not immigrants. And their victims are often immigrants.

So while I don't disagree that they are scumbags, it's not quite the story the Trump weaves in his (far too detailed) little tale of 15-year-old all-American high-school girls getting sliced n diced.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 26th July 2017
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
XM5ER said:
TTwiggy said:
The gist of that article is that the gangs are composed of US-born criminals who tend to pray on recent immigrants. Which is the opposite of what Trump claimed.
That's a bit of a stretch of interpretation. I'm glad we have a few miles of ocean between us and them as they make ISIS look like amateurs.
The article said that the original gang members were El-Salvadorian immigrants. Many of them were sent back under legislation brought in in 1996 and now run the international gangs from 'home'. The gang members in the USA are US-born. They may not be 'white American' but they are not immigrants. And their victims are often immigrants.

So while I don't disagree that they are scumbags, it's not quite the story the Trump weaves in his (far too detailed) little tale of 15-year-old all-American high-school girls getting sliced n diced.
Article also says;

Suffolk County Police arrested at least 31 alleged MS-13 gang members in March. Thirteen of those arrested were considered extremely dangerous & of those, 10 were in the country illegally.

Edited by djstevec on Wednesday 26th July 17:56

TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Wednesday 26th July 2017
quotequote all
djstevec said:
Article also says;

"In March, Suffolk County Police announced the arrest of at least 31 alleged MS-13 gang members......Thirteen of those arrested were considered extremely dangerous; of those, 10 were in the country illegally."
likely they were smuggled into the country to carry out a hit then. Fine. But they hardly fit Trump's description as having been 'protected for so long'.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 26th July 2017
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
djstevec said:
Article also says;

"In March, Suffolk County Police announced the arrest of at least 31 alleged MS-13 gang members......Thirteen of those arrested were considered extremely dangerous; of those, 10 were in the country illegally."
likely they were smuggled into the country to carry out a hit then. Fine. But they hardly fit Trump's description as having been 'protected for so long'.
May well be correct and I am no way a Trump supporter, my point is that the most violent members, those more prevalent to the "slice'n'dice", seem to be the illegals as the article does point out that the home grown gang members don't normally display that level of violence.

As ever, the truth probably lies somewhere in between.....

XM5ER

5,087 posts

247 months

Wednesday 26th July 2017
quotequote all
djstevec said:
As ever, the truth probably lies somewhere in between.....
Not on this thread.

Tartan Pixie

2,207 posts

146 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
Earlier on this thread someone (Countdown?) posted a link about how we perceive and understand lies. It was a really good article but I can't find it now, does anyone have the link?

<><><>

Back on topic: With all this bluster about Trump and Russia it's easy to forget the democrats even have such things as policies, which is probably Trump's most impressive achievement to date. Sure the dems have banged on about Russia and turned the obstruction game up to 11 by bringing in the threat of impeachment but I don't see how that's in any way going to help the real life prospects of Americans other than mitigating the damage Trump can cause the USA. Sure the dems are a vote against Trump but have they managed to come up with something that's worth voting for?

I ask because it seems to me that the earliest prospect for an outcome to all this Russia stuff will depend on the prospects for the midterm elections because republicans won't move against trump until he becomes an electoral liability, which is something he would already be if the dems hadn't dropped the ball so spectacularly. He'll become an electoral liability at some point but not until someone's got a plan to repair the damage globalisation has caused to the American dream.

To put that another way, one of America's most powerful myths is that if you work hard you can be somebody regardless of whether it's an unconventional route like Hunter S Thompson or a more traditional route like Rockafeller. This American dream is part and parcel of what makes America great but nowadays working hard is not enough, you've got to be smart too and not everybody can do that. How can a metal worker be the next Elon Musk? How can a road sweeper aspire to create the next killer app if they can barely use a smartphone?

People who are 40+ with kids (non digital native Trump supporters) find it hard enough to impart wisdom to the grumpy teenage buggers who spend too much time in their room without the added pressure of being told that their skillset is worthless and they'll never amount to much in life because they're only a worker and workers can't aspire to be more because they see in their wage packet how they are valueless in a world of automation, AI's and an app dominated economy that has no need for middle management.

Much has been written on the power of hope and the damage hopelessness can cause so for the many people affected by this assault on the American dream by the seemingly insurmountable powers of technology and global economics there must be something hopeful for people to vote for and Hillary Clinton sure as fk ain't that something.

unrepentant

21,212 posts

255 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
minimoog said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
It's also hilarious that people have been laughing at Trump's supposedly incoherent utterings - when Obama was legendary for his reliance on his teleprompter and earpieces, with everything carefully choreographed with a team of experts making him look good. And of course the sympathetic press always tidied up transcripts of Obama's speeches, reporting what he was supposed to read, not all the stuttering and nonsense.
I've read some bks on here but this is right up there.

For a 1st-hand assessment of what Obama and several other Presidents are like in discourse, see below. The sane and rational might find this a touch more authentic than the ravings of a deranged internet Billy Bullstter:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/insider/the-new...
Even by Nasty's spectacular standards, that is a ridiculous post. It is plain to see in many videos of Obama when he is answering questions, making appearances on chat shows and other unscripted scenarios, he is articulate, thoughtful, witty and charismatic.

Very much everything Trump is not, actually, which may to a certain extent explain why Trump is obsessed with dismantling everything Obama did in office.


Where was Obama born, Nasty?
I sat 10 feet behind Obama when he made a speech in 08. He is an incredible orator. He turned up an hour late to address a crowd of 30,000 in a red state at 24 hours notice with no teleprompter or notes and was just brilliant. I knew then that he would win and win big.

Trump is an embarrassment to a majority of Americans in so many ways, his laughably inarticulate speech delivery is perhaps the most obvious but the least important.

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
What else did Obama do then, that will his road map?

Byker28i

58,831 posts

216 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
Tartan Pixie said:
To put that another way, one of America's most powerful myths is that if you work hard you can be somebody regardless of whether it's an unconventional route like Hunter S Thompson or a more traditional route like Rockafeller. This American dream is part and parcel of what makes America great but nowadays working hard is not enough, you've got to be smart too and not everybody can do that. How can a metal worker be the next Elon Musk? How can a road sweeper aspire to create the next killer app if they can barely use a smartphone?

People who are 40+ with kids (non digital native Trump supporters) find it hard enough to impart wisdom to the grumpy teenage buggers who spend too much time in their room without the added pressure of being told that their skillset is worthless and they'll never amount to much in life because they're only a worker and workers can't aspire to be more because they see in their wage packet how they are valueless in a world of automation, AI's and an app dominated economy that has no need for middle management.
And with the youth glued to social media, the internet, sites like Reddit (mimsnet for the stay at home lot) and the current trend of 'it's the governments fault you aren't successful'. Everyone thinks they are guaranteed a quality standard of living without having to work for it, that they'll just fall into highly paid jobs.

They lapped up the Corbyn 'truths' before the last election that he was going to scrap or heavily reduce tuition fees, so turned out for him in droves.

But that was never a reality, but they didn't denounce it during the election as it was promoting their chance.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/17-young-vot...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jere...

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
Trump challenged on his transgender military ban... by a former Navy SEAL Team 6 member! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/u...

XM5ER

5,087 posts

247 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
So WTF is going on here then

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/25/debbie-wa...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2017/07/...

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/07/26/debbie-wasse...

What is it with the Dems and IT?

Hey Unrep, as a party insider, whats the deal here?

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
rscott said:
Trump challenged on his transgender military ban... by a former Navy SEAL Team 6 member! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/u...
I was massively surprised and disappointed by his utterances yesterday. They are completely at odds to what he said during the campaign. Is he trying to woo the fundamentalists in the Republican Party?



Tartan Pixie

2,207 posts

146 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
And with the youth glued to social media, the internet, sites like Reddit (mimsnet for the stay at home lot) and the current trend of 'it's the governments fault you aren't successful'. Everyone thinks they are guaranteed a quality standard of living without having to work for it, that they'll just fall into highly paid jobs.
That's a rather ungenerous charge to level at the younger generation and I'm not sure it holds water. Sure younger people voted for Corbyn but does that not speak volumes about the mess of a political system the supposedly older and wiser generation have gifted us, basically a choice between useless London centric toffs or useless London centric commies, neither of which have the faintest idea about how the world works.

Have a listen to how Mark Zuckerberg talks about millenials and ask if this is a generation of people who will be content to be literally divided and ruled by a 'you may chose from one of two parties' voting system?

Regardless I don't think trump's base is the reddit crowd, despite how much T_D would like to think someone cares about their stposting. I think Trump's base is firmly rooted in the economics of what happens when you have kids and find it hard to make money. If governments haven't sorted this out by the time we've replaced driving jobs with automated cars, replaced retail staff with automated checkouts and hollowed out the majority of middle management by automating secretarial, legal and other office jobs then a president posting rubbish on twitter will be the least of our worries. I mean they're even making sex robots so you can still bang your secretary once she's been automated out of a job.

In this regard people will keep voting to wreck the current system because it's clear that the current system has no answer to the problems of the modern world. This is the point I was trying to make in my previous post, that until the democrats come up with answers to the above problems the trumpian car crash will continue because he is at least trying to offer answers, even if they are all the wrong answers.

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
He is indeed trying - very trying.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I was massively surprised and disappointed by his utterances yesterday. They are completely at odds to what he said during the campaign. Is he trying to woo the fundamentalists in the Republican Party?
Hes supposedly buying votes for his wall..

greygoose

8,225 posts

194 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
rscott said:
Trump challenged on his transgender military ban... by a former Navy SEAL Team 6 member! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/u...
I was massively surprised and disappointed by his utterances yesterday. They are completely at odds to what he said during the campaign. Is he trying to woo the fundamentalists in the Republican Party?
It is difficult to be disappointed by Trump as he doesn't seem to actually believe in anything beyond getting publicity for himself and uttering random nonsense like a belligerent toddler screaming for attention.

mikal83

5,340 posts

251 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
greygoose said:
Eric Mc said:
rscott said:
Trump challenged on his transgender military ban... by a former Navy SEAL Team 6 member! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/u...
I was massively surprised and disappointed by his utterances yesterday. They are completely at odds to what he said during the campaign. Is he trying to woo the fundamentalists in the Republican Party?
It is difficult to be disappointed by Trump as he doesn't seem to actually believe in anything beyond getting publicity for himself and uttering random nonsense like a belligerent toddler screaming for attention.
But they still lap it up!

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
Who is "they"?

minimoog

6,857 posts

218 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Who is "they"?
His supporter base.

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Thursday 27th July 2017
quotequote all
XM5ER said:
So WTF is going on here then

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/25/debbie-wa...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2017/07/...

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/07/26/debbie-wasse...

What is it with the Dems and IT?

Hey Unrep, as a party insider, whats the deal here?
No party is immune, if this blows up in the Dems face then it will be interesting. Why has trump not jailed Hillary yet?

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