Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
r11co said:
...who have read the headline 'fracking isn't banned says ScotGov' and take that statement at face value. The 'effective' bit is now up for challenge and may be ineffective before too long, but keep repeating the SNat spin, because the one thing the SNP are doing right now is tying themselves up in knots with it.
Did wee Dougie Alexander tell you that wee fairytale?Edited by r11co on Wednesday 20th June 10:31
Or was it Richard Leonard?
Or Cheremy Corbyn?
amusingduck said:
Strocky said:
Some interesting polling recently on how the various components of the UK feel British vs Scottish/Irish/English/Welsh
More alarming for those of a unionist bent is 73% of Leavers would choose leaving the EU over keeping the UK together
Interesting times ahead
Source?More alarming for those of a unionist bent is 73% of Leavers would choose leaving the EU over keeping the UK together
Interesting times ahead
"Finally, we asked Leave voters in Great Britain what they choose to do if it were not possible both to leave the EU and keep England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales together in the United Kingdom. More than six in ten, including half of Labour voters and nearly three quarters of Conservatives, said they would choose to leave the EU."
LordAshcroftPolls.com
Rollin said:
It seems Scotland should start to worry it will sooner be kicked out of the UK rather than vote themselves out.
It's always been a sub-strand of Nationalist political policy to make Scotland seem politically 'difficult' and to create additional differentiators between us and our closest neighbours, and so to encourage popular annoyance south of the border.Of course this would all just disappear once we've got 'wur independunce' and the other nations of the rUK would be delighted to make cosy, non-competitive arrangements on all the various, huge issues that had now arisen.
The polling above just seems to me to indicate that Brexit is the primary political focus above all else at the moment. A separate, focused referendum on a dissolution of the UK would likely yield vastly different results IMO.
Strocky said:
r11co said:
...who have read the headline 'fracking isn't banned says ScotGov' and take that statement at face value. The 'effective' bit is now up for challenge and may be ineffective before too long, but keep repeating the SNat spin, because the one thing the SNP are doing right now is tying themselves up in knots with it.
Did wee Dougie Alexander tell you that wee fairytale?Or was it Richard Leonard?
Or Cheremy Corbyn?
It was INEOS's intention all along to 'lose' - first battle in a war that the SNP will eventually lose because their words and intentions don't match (but then as we have said all along, the fracking thing was just a continuation of a delay with the illusion of intent in order to keep the Greenies compliant).
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 20th June 14:36
Uppity said:
"Finally, we asked Leave voters in Great Britain what they choose to do if it were not possible both to leave the EU and keep England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales together in the United Kingdom. More than six in ten, including half of Labour voters and nearly three quarters of Conservatives, said they would choose to leave the EU."
That is a leading question, a bit like asking which of your children would you like shot where the option of answering none of them is not given.Typical of the SNats though to use it as a proxy for support for independence (in the same way Nicola assumed all Scottish Remain voters were).
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 20th June 14:44
r11co said:
Strocky said:
r11co said:
...who have read the headline 'fracking isn't banned says ScotGov' and take that statement at face value. The 'effective' bit is now up for challenge and may be ineffective before too long, but keep repeating the SNat spin, because the one thing the SNP are doing right now is tying themselves up in knots with it.
Did wee Dougie Alexander tell you that wee fairytale?Or was it Richard Leonard?
Or Cheremy Corbyn?
It was INEOS's intention all along to 'lose' - first battle in a war that the SNP will eventually lose because their words and intentions don't match (but then as we have said all along, the fracking thing was just a continuation of a delay with the illusion of intent in order to keep the Greenies compliant).
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 20th June 14:36
This means if another political party gained control, they could simply take different political decision and approve planning applications. If it was a really 'ban', then presumably there would need to be a vote to repeal the policy.
So its an SNP / Green ban / moratorium as long as they're in power.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44532985
gofasterrosssco said:
It's not technically a 'ban', but more the fact the Scot Gov. will refuse to grant planning permission for further drilling or shale extraction.
This means if another political party gained control, they could simply take different political decision and approve planning applications. If it was a really 'ban', then presumably there would need to be a vote to repeal the policy.
So its an SNP / Green ban / moratorium as long as they're in power.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44532985
Maybe, but the planning application and granting process is supposed to be apolitical and independent of government. There is an independent environmental impact study report coming in October that everyone will be waiting anxiously for now rather than it slipping under the radar because everyone mistakenly thought fracking had already been 'banned'.This means if another political party gained control, they could simply take different political decision and approve planning applications. If it was a really 'ban', then presumably there would need to be a vote to repeal the policy.
So its an SNP / Green ban / moratorium as long as they're in power.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44532985
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 20th June 14:54
r11co said:
gofasterrosssco said:
It's not technically a 'ban', but more the fact the Scot Gov. will refuse to grant planning permission for further drilling or shale extraction.
This means if another political party gained control, they could simply take different political decision and approve planning applications. If it was a really 'ban', then presumably there would need to be a vote to repeal the policy.
So its an SNP / Green ban / moratorium as long as they're in power.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44532985
Maybe, but the planning application and granting process is supposed to be apolitical and independent of government.This means if another political party gained control, they could simply take different political decision and approve planning applications. If it was a really 'ban', then presumably there would need to be a vote to repeal the policy.
So its an SNP / Green ban / moratorium as long as they're in power.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44532985
Almost makes you wonder if concerns are taken more seriously when they affect those in the Central Belt...
gofasterrosssco said:
Totally agree, but that's rarely the case. Previous high-profile example up this way was Trump's golf course, where local and scientific concerns were called-in and over-ruled.
Almost makes you wonder if concerns are taken more seriously when they affect those in the Central Belt...
No they aren't. See Park of Keir and Edinburgh Film Studios for examples. Almost makes you wonder if concerns are taken more seriously when they affect those in the Central Belt...
As a southsider I get a twice yearly update on what wonderful progress our MSP and First Minister has made in her constituency. The 4pager arrived the other day with her big photo on the front and a sub heading "it's easy to miss what's been going on, so..."
Too f
king right it's easy to miss. I was in glorious Govanhill yesterday for all of 20 minutes. Groups of Roma roaming the corners like a Poundland version of The Wire. Beds and drawers abandoned on every pavement (it's so ubiquitous it's almost like street furniture), dog st everywhere, and I mean everywhere. But the best was a running battle between whites and others, complete with sticks. I say others because I'm not sure of their origin but the term they used for their foes was 'honkys'. Make of that what you will. 
Aahhh, multiculturalism.
Too f
king right it's easy to miss. I was in glorious Govanhill yesterday for all of 20 minutes. Groups of Roma roaming the corners like a Poundland version of The Wire. Beds and drawers abandoned on every pavement (it's so ubiquitous it's almost like street furniture), dog st everywhere, and I mean everywhere. But the best was a running battle between whites and others, complete with sticks. I say others because I'm not sure of their origin but the term they used for their foes was 'honkys'. Make of that what you will. Aahhh, multiculturalism.
technodup said:
As a southsider I get a twice yearly update on what wonderful progress our MSP and First Minister has made in her constituency. The 4pager arrived the other day with her big photo on the front and a sub heading "it's easy to miss what's been going on, so..."
Too fking right it's easy to miss. I was in glorious Govanhill yesterday for all of 20 minutes. Groups of Roma roaming the corners like a Poundland version of The Wire. Beds and drawers abandoned on every pavement (it's so ubiquitous it's almost like street furniture), dog st everywhere, and I mean everywhere. But the best was a running battle between whites and others, complete with sticks. I say others because I'm not sure of their origin but the term they used for their foes was 'honkys'. Make of that what you will.
Aahhh, multiculturalism.
Very occasionally I'll drive down Alison Street thinking "There is something nice about such a bustling, open-air community". Most of the time I just lock the doors and gun it.Too f
king right it's easy to miss. I was in glorious Govanhill yesterday for all of 20 minutes. Groups of Roma roaming the corners like a Poundland version of The Wire. Beds and drawers abandoned on every pavement (it's so ubiquitous it's almost like street furniture), dog st everywhere, and I mean everywhere. But the best was a running battle between whites and others, complete with sticks. I say others because I'm not sure of their origin but the term they used for their foes was 'honkys'. Make of that what you will. Aahhh, multiculturalism.
andy_s said:
^ This is one of the reasons I can't get behind the self-determination argument; for me i. Nationalism in itself isn't a concept I adhere too; it's generally been quite bad for the world and strikes me as more usually used as a false flag cover for more nefarious purpose as it is easily and emotionally swallowed. Be careful.
There's an interesting article on nationalism with a small 'n; versus Nationalism. It's written by Chris Deerin (a pretty staunch pro-UK supporter) and has an interesting perspective from an Oxford Uni Professor - Worth a quick read.Uppity said:
There's an interesting article on nationalism with a small 'n; versus Nationalism. It's written by Chris Deerin (a pretty staunch pro-UK supporter) and has an interesting perspective from an Oxford Uni Professor - Worth a quick read.
For the benefit of anyone else, it's not really.It just tries to draw a distinction between good nationalists (the SNP) and the bad nationalists (every other nationalist, and especially those nasty nationalists who happen to be Tories, Boris and Mogg).
Article says- "You don’t have to want Scottish independence to appreciate today’s SNP as a significant emblem of decency, progressiveness and social conscience." Strange I am unaware of any Unionist who would regard the SNP as any of those things. This would be the same party that hounded a decent man to his death (Charles Kennedy), who are more than happy for their cybernats to attack anyone who dares disagree, calls for boycotts of any company who has a different view to theirs. A party who avoids at all costs freedom of information requests, who have utterly divided Scotland and done everything possible to create divisions with our neighbours. Nothing decent or progressive that I can see.
Alpacaman said:
Article says- "You don’t have to want Scottish independence to appreciate today’s SNP as a significant emblem of decency, progressiveness and social conscience." Strange I am unaware of any Unionist who would regard the SNP as any of those things. This would be the same party that hounded a decent man to his death (Charles Kennedy)
Wow. Just, wow.Uppity said:
Alpacaman said:
Article says- "You don’t have to want Scottish independence to appreciate today’s SNP as a significant emblem of decency, progressiveness and social conscience." Strange I am unaware of any Unionist who would regard the SNP as any of those things. This would be the same party that hounded a decent man to his death (Charles Kennedy)
Wow. Just, wow.Just because you choose to ignore the hate doesn't mean it's not happening. Charles was a decent man who helped his constituents whatever they voted.
Alpacaman said:
Uppity said:
Alpacaman said:
Article says- "You don’t have to want Scottish independence to appreciate today’s SNP as a significant emblem of decency, progressiveness and social conscience." Strange I am unaware of any Unionist who would regard the SNP as any of those things. This would be the same party that hounded a decent man to his death (Charles Kennedy)
Wow. Just, wow.Just because you choose to ignore the hate doesn't mean it's not happening. Charles was a decent man who helped his constituents whatever they voted.
Kccv23highliftcam said:
Uppity said:
Wow. Just, wow.
Hounded to his Death.There isn't really anything else to say.
Uppity said:
You have both made a deliberate choice to use the long-term illness of a man; an illness that blighted his adult life and eventually killed him, in an attempt to score a political point. I now know more about you than I would have cared to.
Alex Salmond says Charles Kennedy's 'heart was not in' the Better Together referendum campaign.Anger at Alex Salmond's 'shameful' Charles Kennedy comments hours after his death.
Former SNP leader putting words in the mouth of a dead man in an attempt to score a political point?! Irony none!
Ian Blackford's campaign team's hounding of Charles Kennedy, the online co-ordinated CyberNat abuse he received about his ilness (for which one of the team quit after threat of being investigated by the police under the Communications Act), and the physical assault on him in his office when Blackford and some of his 'team' paid him an uninvited visit because Blackford was mifed about Kennedy's campaign material describing Blackford (accurately) as a 'former Edinburgh banker' are a matter of record.
Uppity - another wilfully ignorant SNat it seems.
Edited by r11co on Friday 22 June 06:57
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