Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[amusingduck]

A.J.M said:

Still Natalie McGarry has been found guilty of embezzling over £25,600 from independence organisations.

Is this that new politics we keep hearing about?

BBC said:

A former SNP MP has pled guilty to embezzling more than £25,600 from pro-independence organisations - including money intended for a foodbank.

Different kind of politics indeed. Imagine the outrage if she was a Toarie!

[Evercross]

Edinburger said:

It's only been an hour or two and some peoples' minds are closing fast...

As I said 'burger the speech was a rehash of what Sturgeon has already said.

andy_s said:

unless she comes out with a clear workable roadmap allied to a substantive vision for how we end up better off despite the obvious pitfalls then mine will remain 'closed until further notice'.

This.

Irony is that nationalists like yourself 'burger have closed their minds to the need to make the case for independence. Don't forget that the vote was lost the last time and opinion has not wavered since. In 2014 Salmond’s tactic was to bluff, bluster and tell lies that would make a Brexiteer cringe regarding the costs (low) and impacts (minimal) and made the ‘£350,000,000 for the NHS’ Brexit bus slogan appear positively credible by comparison.

In 2019 Sturgeon’s tactic is to waver and wander and play for time while waiting for an implosion of the UK parliament from her eagerly but prematurely signposted (and looking more and more unlikely) Brexit fallout. Meanwhile the faithful cling to their belief that 'independence is inevitable' and don't see the need to make a case as they think the opposition will hand it to them by default.

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

So? If you got told to jump off a bridge, would you?

Scotland was also told that the greatest threat to their EU membership was remaining in the UK and a Brexit referendum.

Nothing has changed since 2014 - we voted in the full knowledge Brexit was a possibility and we chose the UK.

[Alpacaman]

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

So a turnout of only 67%, over 1 million voted leave and only about 600,000 more voted remain, so hardly overwhelming is it? In fact less people voted for the SNP in the 2017 general election than voted leave. So really just one in a huge list of things that the SNP would consider a material change.

[Scrubs]

Indyref2 before 2021 is impossible and the FM knows it. That's why she is calling for it. Another way to kick the can down the road beyond the next election. Problem is, I think this only serves to make her grassroots more restless and the public more bored.

[Evercross]

Scrubs said:

Indyref2 before 2021 is impossible and the FM knows it. That's why she is calling for it. Another way to kick the can down the road beyond the next election. Problem is, I think this only serves to make her grassroots more restless and the public more bored.

I genuinely believe she wasn't looking beyond this weekend with this pronouncement. The timing and content were as transparent as the bars on Natalie McGarry's cell.

Alpacaman said:

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

So a turnout of only 67%, over 1 million voted leave and only about 600,000 more voted remain, so hardly overwhelming is it? In fact less people voted for the SNP in the 2017 general election than voted leave. So really just one in a huge list of things that the SNP would consider a material change.

Oh, and don't forget that polling analysis shows that SNP supporters were more likely to have voted leave than supporters of the other main parties.

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 24th April 19:05

[simoid]

Evercross said:

Oh, and don't forget that polling analysis shows that SNP supporters were more likely to have voted leave than supporters of the other main parties.

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 24th April 19:05

“More Scots voted leave than voted SNP at the last election” - nationalists hate that stat too

[Leithen]

Edinburger said:

Here we go - Ms Sturgeon said 'Indyref2' should take place "within this parliamentary term" once the Brexit path has been determined to allow an informed choice to be made.

Seems sensible to me.

Confirmation that Sturgeon's message has reached its intended audience and had the desired effect.

The rest of the electorate continue to wonder when and if she'll ever get round to doing the job she's paid for as First Minister.

[Pastor Of Muppets]

And whilst the funeral in Ireland is taking place with many of the big Political names present, all wee Krankie
could do was sit in Edinburgh banging on about Independence yet again, what a fecking disgrace.

All I can say is bring it on, because it will be the same result as we gave in 2014 with the added bonus that
the devious dragon will be finished once the result is declared, bye bye Turd-yin.

[technodup]

Wings said:

The meaningful effect of this will be zero. If events should conspire in such a way that the SNP can extract a second indyref as the price of supporting a Labour government (which is unlikely on several levels, but not quite impossible, as the Tories are currently imploding at speed since failing to deliver Brexit again), there’ll be one no matter what stage the Citizens’ Assembly is at. If they don’t, there won’t.

The speech was a stalling exercise designed to appease the SNP membership and Yes movement by not explicitly putting a second referendum beyond 2021, in the hope that something (such as the aforementioned general election) happens to change the deadlock by which the UK government can just say “No” indefinitely.

Wings agrees with the PH collective.

Edinburgher in denial.

[ninepoint2]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

And whilst the funeral in Ireland is taking place with many of the big Political names present, all wee Krankie
could do was sit in Edinburgh banging on about Independence yet again, what a fecking disgrace.

All I can say is bring it on, because it will be the same result as we gave in 2014 with the added bonus that
the devious dragon will be finished once the result is declared, bye bye Turd-yin.

Don't often comment on Politics but this seems spot on to me. Wee Jimmy Sturgeon seems unable to grasp the basics of a democracy. The facts are so simple even my cat could understand them. Scotland voted to remain in the UK, the UK subsequently voted to leave the EU..erm Sturgeon that's how democracy works, you can't really keep repeating the same question until you get the answer you want in a democratic political system. She really is a hateful individual..though with some saving grace not in the same league as old Soapy

[funkyrobot]

Another referendum returning the 'wrong' result.

[wc98]

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

i've considered mine and decided the snp and their supporters are sore losers (i wonder what proportion are remainiacs ?) and need to stfu. their politicians need to take a good hard look at some of the utterly disgraceful things they preside over and get their st together. there is zero chance we will vote for independence any time soon, the energy being wasted on this crap could be better spent elsewhere.

[Evercross]

technodup said:

Wings agrees with the PH collective. Edinburgher in denial.

And Strocky struck dumb in shock. Either that or he was Natalie McGarry all along.

[Troubleatmill]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

So? If you got told to jump off a bridge, would you?

Scotland was also told that the greatest threat to their EU membership was remaining in the UK and a Brexit referendum.

Nothing has changed since 2014 - we voted in the full knowledge Brexit was a possibility and we chose the UK.

Burger is being more than a bit disingenuous here.

The very second Scotland exited the UK - it would have been out of the EU.
The EU explained this on more than one occasion. source - The Scottish Govt website TWICE!!! ( Go read it!!! )


The EU explained it in a manner so that even the most pig headed nutter understood.
The ONLY possible way for Scotland to remain in the EU was to vote to remain in the UK.

But it doesn't stop the SNP bleating on "but we were told...."

To spout it out is just disingenuous arse gravy. Just read your own website. It is there in black and white - with a blue flag with yellow stars in the letterhead.

[Evercross]

Troubleatmill said:

The very second Scotland exited the UK - it would have been out of the EU.
The EU explained this on more than one occasion. source - The Scottish Govt website TWICE!!! ( Go read it!!! )

Indeed, but those letters from the EU Commission and (then) President José Manuel Barroso responding to questions about the legal position of Scotland acceding to EU membership (the answer being they wouldn't) were only published AFTER the White Paper that contained an entire chapter of lies based on Alex Salmond's (non-existent) 'legal advice', and the nationalist support still believe the lies over the legality - in the same way that some still think a Scottish FM can call a referendum.

Sturgeon has done precious little to change her dialogue regarding Scottish EU membership and still likes to give the impression that independence would end the prospect of Scotland leaving the EU. For that reason alone she is not fit for the job she does and anyone who treats anything she says as being remotely credible is 'in denial' or severely intellectually challenged.

[Alpacaman]

You do start to wonder how much longer she can cling to power. When even Wings no longer believes you, and can see it is just another attempt to placate the hard-core indy fans, you really start to think she is on her way out. Her claims that education is her number one priority are starting to look a little hollow as well. The problem for the SNP is who do they replace her with, is there a single one who stands out?

Even in the unlikely event she gets another vote, she knows it won't be a yes/no vote and more likely a leave/remain question which won't be in her favour. As Burger says on a regular basis "interesting times".

[Rollin]

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no

Well you've stayed in the EU longer than you would have done.

The way things are going, a yes vote before 2021 will probably see you leaving the EU quicker than the rest of the UK.

[Pastor Of Muppets]

Evercross said:

Indeed, but those letters from the EU Commission and (then) President José Manuel Barroso responding to questions about the legal position of Scotland acceding to EU membership (the answer being they wouldn't) were only published AFTER the White Paper that contained an entire chapter of lies based on Alex Salmond's (non-existent) 'legal advice', and the nationalist support still believe the lies over the legality - in the same way that some still think a Scottish FM can call a referendum.

Sturgeon has done precious little to change her dialogue regarding Scottish EU membership and still likes to give the impression that independence would end the prospect of Scotland leaving the EU. For that reason alone she is not fit for the job she does and anyone who treats anything she says as being remotely credible is 'in denial' or severely intellectually challenged.

They seriously need challenged on the preposterously blatant lies they peddle on a daily basis and feed to their gullible
supporters.

Another issue they don't like discussing is currency, any new member of the EU must adopt the Euro, there is no way on earth
the majority of Scots are going to accept that, the implications of which would be dire beyond belief.

Overall though the positive aspects of remaining part of the UK is overwhelming in comparison to what would be gained
for the population of Scotland, combined with the uncertainty and the form the SNP have for major fibs, the Scots are
not going to hand Scotland over to Krankiie and her cohorts, never, not a chance.

Perfectly happy for them show complete lack of respect to the Scottish electorate and whinge for another go though, because
the next time they will be in ruins afterwards. We just need a good non tribal party to be able to step up and deliver the things
that Scotland truly needs and not shouting 'Indyref2' at every opportunity .

Bring it on Krankie... your days are numbered.

[Evercross]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

Another issue they don't like discussing is currency, any new member of the EU must adopt the Euro.

Yeah, but once again Nicola and the disingenuous SNP like to point out that several EU member states do not currentyly use the Euro, implying that this exemption could automatically be applied to Scotland. What she fails to mention is that of the nine, two have specific opt-outs that are written into the Maastricht Treaty (UK, Norway), and the remaining seven have their own currency and central bank - two prerequisites of being allowed to join the EU as they are the first stage in being able to join the Exchange Rate Mechanism.

Scotland has neither and the White Paper set out no proposals for them, arguing that a Sterling Union would be sufficient - as wrong as an assumption can be but, again, more of those Salmond lies that he peddled at every turn and even mocked Alistair Darling and Nick Robinson for pointing out were inconsistent with his assertions that Scotland would just seamlessly slip-in to the EU.

Only in the last month or so have we seen the grudging admission that Scotland would need its own currency before it could even think of joining the EU.

Rollin said:

The way things are going, a yes vote before 2021 will probably see you leaving the EU quicker than the rest of the UK.

...and even more ironically, if Brexit were to happen and a future Westminster government or PM wanted to reverse the decision within the next decade the UK would be in a position to rejoin quicker than an independent Scotland would.

Edited by Evercross on Thursday 25th April 15:29