Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[Edinburger]

Wings Over Scotland plans new pro-independence party to take on SNP

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/wings-over-...

[TheRainMaker]

Is this the bloke that lives down Bath way?

[andy_s]

Edinburger said:

Wings Over Scotland plans new pro-independence party to take on SNP

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/wings-over-...

Excellent. Clever guy.

[Evercross]

Edinburger said:

Wings Over Scotland plans new pro-independence party to take on SNP

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/wings-over-...

The broad church is clearly fracturing. Campbell vehemently disagrees with the SNP's policy on gender self-identification and I believe this has a lot to do with his motivation to set up another party.

[Borghetto]

Evercross said:

The broad church is clearly fracturing. Campbell vehemently disagrees with the SNP's policy on gender self-identification and I believe this has a lot to do with his motivation to set up another party.

Are you suggesting The "Rev" has gender id issues?

[hidetheelephants]

Evercross said:

Edinburger said:

Wings Over Scotland plans new pro-independence party to take on SNP

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/wings-over-...

The broad church is clearly fracturing. Campbell vehemently disagrees with the SNP's policy on gender self-identification and I believe this has a lot to do with his motivation to set up another party.

Brilliant idea rev! The more dilution of the pro-independence vote the better; lib-lab-con coalition government for Scotland as a consequence? Anything's possible with loons like the rev at large.

[andy_s]

hidetheelephants said:

Brilliant idea rev! The more dilution of the pro-independence vote the better; lib-lab-con coalition government for Scotland as a consequence? Anything's possible with loons like the rev at large.

Exactly!

[technodup]

hidetheelephants said:

Brilliant idea rev! The more dilution of the pro-independence vote the better; lib-lab-con coalition government for Scotland as a consequence? Anything's possible with loons like the rev at large.

That's what I thought at first, and it would be in a FPTP situation but with the list system in Scotland not so much. Pro indy is pro indy. But then again it would inevitably cause a split, and the SNP would be wounded so as Edinburgher says we live in interesting times...

Put it this way, the SNP is long overdue a bloody nose, and it looks like it's going to come from their own side rather than the traditional opponents. So I'm all for it, Sturgeon and Campbell to the death.

Or the fat prick could be talking utter st as usual.

[Evercross]

technodup said:

hat's what I thought at first, and it would be in a FPTP situation but with the list system in Scotland not so much. Pro indy is pro indy. But then again it would inevitably cause a split, and the SNP would be wounded so as Edinburgher says we live in interesting times.

I thought the same, but it would make it very difficult for any one pro-indy party to claim a genuine mandate from the people for anything if they did not command a simple majority. See the fake mandate for another indyref the Greens/SNP alliance had to gerrymander via their own parliamentary vote as an example.

[amusingduck]

Alex Salmond receives £500,000 in legal costs from Scottish Government over botched conduct probe

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alex-salmon...

More great work from the SNP

[andy_s]

amusingduck said:

Alex Salmond receives £500,000 in legal costs from Scottish Government over botched conduct probe

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alex-salmon...

More great work from the SNP

Fur fox ache.

[Evercross]

andy_s said:

amusingduck said:

Alex Salmond receives £500,000 in legal costs from Scottish Government over botched conduct probe

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alex-salmon...

More great work from the SNP

Fur fox ache.

Sickening. Not as if he needs the money either. Other flavours of government would have fallen because of this.

Criminal case still in the offing so hopefully justice will eventually be done.

[Evercross]

And so the process of disassembling another piece of non-competent 'legislation' begins...

Plan to hold Scottish independence vote in 2020 thrown into doubt.

Election Watchdogs critical of proposed legislation

The SNP's attempts to put into legislation rules that circumvent the Electoral Commission and its protocols would have inevitably come under scrutiny. The attempt to tie the EC to the previous Scottish referendum question despite it having revised and already implemented new rules for regarding a question competent is almost certainly going to be found illegal. High time the SNP stopped wasting Scottish parliamentary time and resources posturing like this.

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 20th August 14:55

[Gecko1978]

having seen what is happening with Brexit, I am amazed the SNP wish to carry on with this. Things that could happen:

1) hard border with the UK
2) Hard border with europe as out of the EU one way or the other
3) no central bank
4) no banks
5) Tarrifs on Goods exported to the EU/ UK /Rest of the world as no trade deals in place
6) No effective government departments for many currently shared bodies i.e. DVLA
7) increased postal costs
8) full cost of energy subsidies landing in Scotland
9) huge spike in oil price resulting in a magic money stting unicorn for every household

[Evercross]

Gecko1978 said:

1) hard border with the UK
2) Hard border with europe as out of the EU one way or the other
3) no central bank
4) no banks
5) Tarrifs on Goods exported to the EU/ UK /Rest of the world as no trade deals in place
6) No effective government departments for many currently shared bodies i.e. DVLA
7) increased postal costs
8) full cost of energy subsidies landing in Scotland

The irony is that the SNP think that the 'catastrophe' of 'crashing out' of the EU with no deal would play into their hands when in fact a relatively smooth and uneventful transition would be far more in their favour as it would demonstrate that leaving a union can be painless. The idea that a stty departure from the EU makes a case for a stty departure from the UK is the very definition of insanity IMO.

Anyhoo, it is a laugh watching Nicola trying to weasel her way out of declaring an illegal referendum by trying to sneak through illegal 'legislation'. I expect this bill to go the same way as the Scottish EU Continuity Bill.

Well, it would be a laugh if it wasn't for the parliamentary time that could be used for passing enabling legislation for policies that would benefit Scotland being used instead to attempt to pass points-scoring political legislation that has no practical every-day use and will probably be deemed incompetent later, just so that the SNP can claim yet another grievance.

And before one of our resident chippy SNat's pipes in with some Westminster whitabootery, this is a purely Scottish problem borne of a political party that never stopped being a pressure group and refuses to transition into being a party of government despite having been in power for over a decade. Firefighting failing projects and making on-the-hoof declarations about today's trending issues does not a government make. I mean, is self-certifying your gender really one of the most pressing issues in Scotland at the moment?

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 20th August 15:52

[Gecko1978]

Evercross said:

Gecko1978 said:

1) hard border with the UK
2) Hard border with europe as out of the EU one way or the other
3) no central bank
4) no banks
5) Tarrifs on Goods exported to the EU/ UK /Rest of the world as no trade deals in place
6) No effective government departments for many currently shared bodies i.e. DVLA
7) increased postal costs
8) full cost of energy subsidies landing in Scotland

The irony is that the SNP think that the 'catastrophe' of 'crashing out' of the EU with no deal would play into their hands when in fact a relatively smooth and uneventful transition would be far more in their favour as it would demonstrate that leaving a union can be painless. The idea that a stty departure from the EU makes a case for a stty departure from the UK is the very definition of insanity IMO.

Anyhoo, it is a laugh watching Nicola trying to weasel her way out of declaring an illegal referendum by trying to sneak through illegal 'legislation'. I expect this bill to go the same way as the Scottish EU Continuity Bill.

Well, it would be a laugh if it wasn't for the parliamentary time that could be used for passing enabling legislation for policies that would benefit Scotland being used instead to attempt to pass points-scoring political legislation that has no practical every-day use and will probably be deemed incompetent later, just so that the SNP can claim yet another grievance.

And before one of our resident chippy SNat's pipes in with some Westminster whitabootery, this is a purely Scottish problem borne of a political party that never stopped being a pressure group and refuses to transition into being a party of government despite having been in power for over a decade. Firefighting failing projects and making on-the-hoof declarations about today's trending issues does not a government make. I mean, is self-certifying your gender really one of the most pressing issues in Scotland at the moment?

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 20th August 15:52

you ommited my 9th point do I assume you think they can deliver that haha

[Fastdruid]

Evercross said:

The irony is that the SNP think that the 'catastrophe' of a 'crashing out' of the EU with no deal would play into their hands when in fact a relatively smooth and uneventful transition would be far more in their favour as it would demonstrate that leaving a union can be painless. The idea that a stty departure from the EU makes a case for a stty departure from the UK is the very definition of insanity IMO.

Indeed. I've long thought that if the SNP actually wanted to leave rather than grandstand they would be better off with a supply and confidence deal with the Conservatives with a promise of a second referendum in exchange for supporting and having a say in Brexit legislation. The smoother it goes the better the case for Scotland leaving the UK.

Akin to what the DUP did but for a referendum rather than cash.

The trouble of course being that having made out the Conservatives to be utter monsters at every possible opportunity as well as leaving the EU being a hill they're prepared to die on that they cannot make any concessions to them even to actually get what they claim to want.

[Earthdweller]

Gecko1978 said:

Evercross said:

Gecko1978 said:

1) hard border with the UK
2) Hard border with europe as out of the EU one way or the other
3) no central bank
4) no banks
5) Tarrifs on Goods exported to the EU/ UK /Rest of the world as no trade deals in place
6) No effective government departments for many currently shared bodies i.e. DVLA
7) increased postal costs
8) full cost of energy subsidies landing in Scotland

The irony is that the SNP think that the 'catastrophe' of 'crashing out' of the EU with no deal would play into their hands when in fact a relatively smooth and uneventful transition would be far more in their favour as it would demonstrate that leaving a union can be painless. The idea that a stty departure from the EU makes a case for a stty departure from the UK is the very definition of insanity IMO.

Anyhoo, it is a laugh watching Nicola trying to weasel her way out of declaring an illegal referendum by trying to sneak through illegal 'legislation'. I expect this bill to go the same way as the Scottish EU Continuity Bill.

Well, it would be a laugh if it wasn't for the parliamentary time that could be used for passing enabling legislation for policies that would benefit Scotland being used instead to attempt to pass points-scoring political legislation that has no practical every-day use and will probably be deemed incompetent later, just so that the SNP can claim yet another grievance.

And before one of our resident chippy SNat's pipes in with some Westminster whitabootery, this is a purely Scottish problem borne of a political party that never stopped being a pressure group and refuses to transition into being a party of government despite having been in power for over a decade. Firefighting failing projects and making on-the-hoof declarations about today's trending issues does not a government make. I mean, is self-certifying your gender really one of the most pressing issues in Scotland at the moment?

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 20th August 15:52

you ommited my 9th point do I assume you think they can deliver that haha

They’ll be fine

[technodup]

Evercross said:

Well, it would be a laugh if it wasn't for the parliamentary time that could be used for passing enabling legislation for policies that would benefit Scotland being used instead to attempt to pass points-scoring political legislation that has no practical every-day use and will probably be deemed incompetent later, just so that the SNP can claim yet another grievance.

I think I'd rather they waste the time on futile gestures and legislative dead ends than attempt to do anything which might actually affect the day to day of 'thescorrishpeople'.

Tiresome it may be, but at least it keeps them away from important stuff.

[Edinburger]

Is it just me who thinks some of the GERS data is absolutely ludicrous? How real are the figures? In this forum we have debated actual v assumed income tax intake, but that should be resolved with the new 'S' tax code surely. So how can Scotland's 8.2% of the UK population create 54%-60% of the UK deficit last year? I know loads of people dispute the GERS methodology but it seems to me that this is positioned to settle political discomfort and the rise of Scottish independence rather than giving an open and transparent view of the position.