Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[s2kjock]

sbarclay62 said:

Edinburgh's population is forever increasing and the road's can't handle it. If it can take some cars of the roads while increasing cycling, walking and other transport infrastructure i'm all for it.

There needs to be a vast improvement in Edinburgh's public transport infrastructure before you start penalising drivers - most people I suspect would prefer not to drive, but the practical alternatives are very limited so they don't have a choice.

It would need massive investment (funds we don't have), and very brave politicians that think long term (which we don't have either) to solve this in Edinburgh.

[technodup]

AstonZagato said:

Secondly, basic human decency. I find it difficult that society could leave a person in a ditch, even if that is where they have chosen to fall. A minimum safety-net is still required. So perhaps I'm not fully libertarian.

A ditch is a safety net. It's not as deep as a big hole.

[anonymous-user]

Just can't take no.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...

[Andy 308GTB]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Just can't take no.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...

You will produce the correct answer. Eventually.
It sounds familiar.

[W12GT]

Got to say that this time I’m pretty sure Scotland will vote to become independent and be part of Europe. Certainly wouldn’t blame them.

Whilst we are stuck with Boris who seems determined to take this country to the brink of collapse - he is adamant that he won’t have another referendum because of democracy. WTF is this guy on?

[Andy 308GTB]

W12GT said:

Got to say that this time I’m pretty sure Scotland will vote to become independent and be part of Europe. Certainly wouldn’t blame them.

Whilst we are stuck with Boris who seems determined to take this country to the brink of collapse - he is adamant that he won’t have another referendum because of democracy. WTF is this guy on?

I didn't think they would get EU membership.
Also, the vote in 2014 (?) was on the basis that is was a generational vote and there wouldn't be another for at least 10 years?

[Alpacaman]

W12GT said:

Got to say that this time I’m pretty sure Scotland will vote to become independent and be part of Europe. Certainly wouldn’t blame them.

Whilst we are stuck with Boris who seems determined to take this country to the brink of collapse - he is adamant that he won’t have another referendum because of democracy. WTF is this guy on?

Luckily I think you are completely wrong, most Scots have more sense than to vote for independence as most of us realise we are nowhere near the criteria for joining the EU. So Scexit would create far more damage for Scotland, especially as Sturgeon can't rule out a hard border.

As for referenda, there isn't much point in keep having them if you don't respect the result. The SNP didn't respect the result of the 2014 vote, so why should anyone respect the result of the next one?

[simoid]

s2kjock said:

sbarclay62 said:

Edinburgh's population is forever increasing and the road's can't handle it. If it can take some cars of the roads while increasing cycling, walking and other transport infrastructure i'm all for it.

There needs to be a vast improvement in Edinburgh's public transport infrastructure before you start penalising drivers - most people I suspect would prefer not to drive, but the practical alternatives are very limited so they don't have a choice.

It would need massive investment (funds we don't have), and very brave politicians that think long term (which we don't have either) to solve this in Edinburgh.

The s are still lumping money into slow buses that run on rails when they’ve it perfectly good buses that have rubber wheels. £1bn+ was the last count. I think I estimated that they could’ve made buses free for 20 years with that money...

[anonymous-user]

W12GT said:

Got to say that this time I’m pretty sure Scotland will vote to become independent and be part of Europe. Certainly wouldn’t blame them.

Whilst we are stuck with Boris who seems determined to take this country to the brink of collapse - he is adamant that he won’t have another referendum because of democracy. WTF is this guy on?

Many Scots like myself can't stand the SNP. Their policies make no sense whatsoever.

Be free of Westminster but controlled by the EU.

Well done Krankie.

The map in this article is very telling.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides...

[W12GT]

Alpacaman said:

W12GT said:

Got to say that this time I’m pretty sure Scotland will vote to become independent and be part of Europe. Certainly wouldn’t blame them.

Whilst we are stuck with Boris who seems determined to take this country to the brink of collapse - he is adamant that he won’t have another referendum because of democracy. WTF is this guy on?

Luckily I think you are completely wrong, most Scots have more sense than to vote for independence as most of us realise we are nowhere near the criteria for joining the EU. So Scexit would create far more damage for Scotland, especially as Sturgeon can't rule out a hard border.

As for referenda, there isn't much point in keep having them if you don't respect the result. The SNP didn't respect the result of the 2014 vote, so why should anyone respect the result of the next one?

Because environments change and so do peoples’ opinions. Just because it was the consensus in 2016 it does not mean it is the same in 2019. In fact many recent polls including the latest YouGov data suggest the majority 53/47 would vote remain.

Edited by W12GT on Tuesday 15th October 17:27

[simoid]

Garvin said:

sbarclay62 said:

simoid said:

Believe it or not, not everyone who works in Edinburgh lives in Edinburgh. Plenty of folk can’t afford a house in Edinburgh or the public transport to get to work in Edinburgh - and it’s those low earners who would be hit with the parking tax.

Totally.

Bat st.

Idea.

If they're that low earners that they can't afford an extra 2 quid a day to park a car on top of the cost of running a car, what entices them to work in Edinburgh, with all the extra hassle that entails instead of just getting a local job? £2 for a full day's parking is still cheaper than £3.40 a day in busfares (return) or around the same as £2 a day for a bus-pass (£60 a month now i'd guess?) that local minimum wage staff will have to pay if they work and live in the city? Much a-do about nothing TBH.

Edinburgh's population is forever increasing and the road's can't handle it. If it can take some cars of the roads while increasing cycling, walking and other transport infrastructure i'm all for it.

How is such a scheme administered?

Presumably it’ll be up to councils: “we’re coming to count your parking spaces and we’re going to charge you £x per year for them.” Then the employer will decide whether to take the hit, or pass it on to the employee.

Barclay - you must live in a different world to me. One where jobs are plentiful and people simply choose where they want to work.

Also - I’m not talking about people who live in Edinburgh and can get a bus to work for a £1.70 single. I’m talking about those people who live OUTSIDE Edinburgh who could need buses and trains. When you start to add up the time and cost of multiple public transport journeys, the car wins easily. This is simply a tax on these people. Worse than the poll tax we Scots loved so much.

[anonymous-user]

W12GT said:

Got to say that this time I’m pretty sure Scotland will vote to become independent and be part of Europe. Certainly wouldn’t blame them.

Really?

I genuinely don't understand this sentiment.

I'm Scottish, living in Scotland and to me, the SNP and First Minister act like dictators. I voted no in 2014 and out in 2016. I won both referendums and Nicola lost both. Yet, apparently, that was wrong (both) and we must keep going until the 'right' answer is delivered. Tell me how that is fair? All this ste about taken out the EU against our will....the vote was for the UK not Scotland. By their logic Dundee should be an independent country.

I don't get why Scots would think that, if being out of the EU is such an upheaval, Independence from the UK will solve this? Even if we get back into the EU, we'll have to use the Euro and be a fairly small country propped up by others. (Could argue we already are..). There's the hard border and massive, expensive admin - taxes, HRMC, DVLA, etc etc. Where's the answers? There aren't any.

I'm not saying we can't be independent, Ireland is. But I don't want it, neither did people in 2014. But it's a bit too far to force it until we get it.

[Alpacaman]

W12GT said:

Because environments change and so do peoples’ opinions. Just because it was the consensus in 2016 it does not mean it is the same in 2019. In fact many recent polls including the latest YouGov data suggest the majority 53/47 would vote remain.

Edited by W12GT on Tuesday 15th October 17:27

Then what? Best of three, just in case people have changed their minds again? You can't keep having a referendum every few years just in case. You either respect the result or you don't bother having them.

Anyway as the last thing this thread needs is stuff about Brexit, we were told this (The 2014 indy ref) was a "once in a lifetime opportunity" so why would anyone think they would respect the result next time.

[technodup]

5490 said:

I'm not saying we can't be independent, Ireland is.

No it's not. Ireland is a net beneficiary of the EU. It relies on money from others, how can it be independent?

It's the same fake independence the SNP want for us. And they can fk right off.

[500swk]

5490 said:

Really?

I genuinely don't understand this sentiment.

I'm Scottish, living in Scotland and to me, the SNP and First Minister act like dictators. I voted no in 2014 and out in 2016. I won both referendums and Nicola lost both. Yet, apparently, that was wrong (both) and we must keep going until the 'right' answer is delivered. Tell me how that is fair? All this ste about taken out the EU against our will....the vote was for the UK not Scotland. By their logic Dundee should be an independent country.

I don't get why Scots would think that, if being out of the EU is such an upheaval, Independence from the UK will solve this? Even if we get back into the EU, we'll have to use the Euro and be a fairly small country propped up by others. (Could argue we already are..). There's the hard border and massive, expensive admin - taxes, HRMC, DVLA, etc etc. Where's the answers? There aren't any.

I'm not saying we can't be independent, Ireland is. But I don't want it, neither did people in 2014. But it's a bit too far to force it until we get it.

got to agree with 5490 there isnt enough stupid scots people to vote for indi,
only in the snp settlements of glasgow and dundee do they make a lot of noise about it

[Welshbeef]

technodup said:

5490 said:

I'm not saying we can't be independent, Ireland is.

No it's not. Ireland is a net beneficiary of the EU. It relies on money from others, how can it be independent?

It's the same fake independence the SNP want for us. And they can fk right off.

Interesting and valid perspective - go for fake Independance. But instead it’s much better to have the pride of paying your own way....

[PF62]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

The map in this article is very telling.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides...

Is it?

All it tells you that there are fk all people living across most of Scotland with large numbers concentrated in the cities.

If that was a surprise to you, perhaps you should get out a bit more.

[simoid]

PF62 said:

Is it?

All it tells you that there are fk all people living across most of Scotland with large numbers concentrated in the cities.

If that was a surprise to you, perhaps you should get out a bit more.

The most relevant part:

“SCOTLAND VOTES NO”

[Welshbeef]

PF62 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

The map in this article is very telling.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides...

Is it?

All it tells you that there are fk all people living across most of Scotland with large numbers concentrated in the cities.

If that was a surprise to you, perhaps you should get out a bit more.

Sorry but what a rude needless response to that other poster.

Lower the aggression and remove the nasty jabs to others making fun of their IQ. (Feels like re watching Eng v Bulgaria again....)

[rossub]

5490 said:

Really?

I genuinely don't understand this sentiment.

I'm Scottish, living in Scotland and to me, the SNP and First Minister act like dictators. I voted no in 2014 and out in 2016. I won both referendums and Nicola lost both. Yet, apparently, that was wrong (both) and we must keep going until the 'right' answer is delivered. Tell me how that is fair? All this ste about taken out the EU against our will....the vote was for the UK not Scotland. By their logic Dundee should be an independent country.

I don't get why Scots would think that, if being out of the EU is such an upheaval, Independence from the UK will solve this? Even if we get back into the EU, we'll have to use the Euro and be a fairly small country propped up by others. (Could argue we already are..). There's the hard border and massive, expensive admin - taxes, HRMC, DVLA, etc etc. Where's the answers? There aren't any.

I'm not saying we can't be independent, Ireland is. But I don't want it, neither did people in 2014. But it's a bit too far to force it until we get it.

Well said