Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
malks222 said:
Edinburger said:
This is an interesting article:
Significant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
i noticed this chat doing the rounds on social media following the snp conference. it’s a great sound bite, however the scottish government spending currently £8billion a year on state pension (latest GERS) figures, where on earth are they gonna find an additional £16billion for this?!? Significant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
You aren’t reading/don’t want to understand then.
The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
The bus is nowhere near as convenient.The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
Blue Oval84 said:
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
You aren’t reading/don’t want to understand then.
The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
The bus is nowhere near as convenient.The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
If you're a visitor to Edinburgh, just try getting on a big, loud, dirty bus which is cramped and stops at umpteen stops along the way and is regularly held up by other buses, traffic lights, etc. Compare that experience to boarding a bright and airy tram which glides along the trams unhindered by other trams with fewer and more strategically placed stops. The tell me what was the better experience.
I know a few people who commute from Livingston and other areas of West Lothian. they drive to Ingliston where they park free and get the tram into town.
Absolute no brainer.
Edinburger said:
Blue Oval84 said:
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
You aren’t reading/don’t want to understand then.
The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
The bus is nowhere near as convenient.The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
If you're a visitor to Edinburgh, just try getting on a big, loud, dirty bus which is cramped and stops at umpteen stops along the way and is regularly held up by other buses, traffic lights, etc. Compare that experience to boarding a bright and airy tram which glides along the trams unhindered by other trams with fewer and more strategically placed stops. The tell me what was the better experience.
I know a few people who commute from Livingston and other areas of West Lothian. they drive to Ingliston where they park free and get the tram into town.
Absolute no brainer.
Staggeringly cheaper to build, and you'll get a dozen brand spanking new buses for every single tram.
Faster, cheaper, higher capacity and just as luxurious.
Earthdweller said:
It’s just one line .. it’s not connected ... it’s just seems a bit pointless really .. handy if your a tourist coming from the airport but the difference in Manchester is night and day it’s a large and getting much larger frequent viable well connected network
If you are going to do it .. do it properly not just one line that seems more of a vanity project than a real benefit
That’s my point
Manchester's metrolink is what, 30 years old? The trams in Edinburgh are about 5 years old. Greater Manchester is 3m people, greater Edinburgh is about a third of that. Of course Manchester's is going to be better.If you are going to do it .. do it properly not just one line that seems more of a vanity project than a real benefit
That’s my point
It serves the airport, a park and ride, financial/business district at the Gyle, city centre with Murrayfield and Tynecastle stadiums too. Soon it will serve Leith which is one of the most dense populated areas in the UK i believe and Easter Road stadium. Soon there will be massive new developments at Newhaven/Western Harbour, South Gyle and the International Business Gateway at the airport which it will also serve. It's a fantastic asset to the city however it does need to grow. After the Newhaven line is complete I suspect the next line will be to the south of the city which will serve The Royal Infirmary, Sick Kids and the BioQuarter and possible another park and ride at that end of the city?
Edinburger said:
Blue Oval84 said:
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
You aren’t reading/don’t want to understand then.
The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
The bus is nowhere near as convenient.The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
If you're a visitor to Edinburgh, just try getting on a big, loud, dirty bus which is cramped and stops at umpteen stops along the way and is regularly held up by other buses, traffic lights, etc. Compare that experience to boarding a bright and airy tram which glides along the trams unhindered by other trams with fewer and more strategically placed stops. The tell me what was the better experience.
I know a few people who commute from Livingston and other areas of West Lothian. they drive to Ingliston where they park free and get the tram into town.
Absolute no brainer.
Far cheaper than reinstalling the railway lines especially where bits of them have been built over
The buses then become “normal” buses once in the city centre
Joined up integrated thinking
Edinburger said:
If - and it's a big IF - the SNP were able to design a buoyant economy with a different taxation and spend model then over time this could probably be feasible. But probably not for the current generation. I think this is written as a vote winner and nothing else.
And pigs could be genetically altered so they could fly, but I think that is possibly slightly more likely than what you have written. And that is one of my major problems with the SNP, lets promise something we know we can never deliver because we know our supporters will swallow it as fact, and by the time they find out it will be too late. Have the SNP given any indications of having any ideas which would create a buoyant economy? A different tax and spend model? What tax more and spend less?How can you support any party which come out with such nonsense? It would take several generations (proper generations not SNP ones) just to recover from independence and get back to where we are now without even beginning to think about massive pension increases. Are you sure you don't work for the SNP?
Sway said:
Try comparing a bus expressway, specifically following the same route...
Staggeringly cheaper to build, and you'll get a dozen brand spanking new buses for every single tram.
Faster, cheaper, higher capacity and just as luxurious.
If that's the case why are cities building and expanding rail networks all over their country? Genuine question.Staggeringly cheaper to build, and you'll get a dozen brand spanking new buses for every single tram.
Faster, cheaper, higher capacity and just as luxurious.
I can't help but feel if wee Ruth delivered this it would be a fantastic project and an asset to the Edinburgh area. But some people just can't take the blinkers off.....
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
You aren’t reading/don’t want to understand then.
The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
The bus is nowhere near as convenient.The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
The Airlink 100 bus stops 9 times between Waverley Bridge and the Airport and takes approximately 30 minutes. It costs £7.50, which includes free wifi on modern buses.
This is why people question the £1 billion (including the £264 million that Edinburgh residents will have to repay over the next 30 years). The money could have been better spent.
sbarclay62 said:
Sway said:
Try comparing a bus expressway, specifically following the same route...
Staggeringly cheaper to build, and you'll get a dozen brand spanking new buses for every single tram.
Faster, cheaper, higher capacity and just as luxurious.
If that's the case why are cities building and expanding rail networks all over their country? Genuine question.Staggeringly cheaper to build, and you'll get a dozen brand spanking new buses for every single tram.
Faster, cheaper, higher capacity and just as luxurious.
I can't help but feel if wee Ruth delivered this it would be a fantastic project and an asset to the Edinburgh area. But some people just can't take the blinkers off.....
Every city is different. Many that are adding rail links, are also adding serious road capacity too.
Edinburger said:
I've absolutely no idea if it would be cheaper or not.
It is. Did you not notice the tram works and all the necessary gubbins to put the rails in and move utilities? Of course you didn’t.Edinburger said:
If you're a visitor to Edinburgh, just try getting on a big, loud,
Trams are bigger and just as loud as buses, if not louder than hybrid/electric buses.Edinburger said:
dirty bus
They’re just as clean as trams. Edinburger said:
which is cramped
Another peculiar comment. Fairly sure the seats are similar room but we could rearrange buses to have more legroom I’m sure, with £1,000,000,000.Edinburger said:
and stops at umpteen stops along the way and is regularly held up by other buses, traffic lights, etc.
Express buses stop as frequently or less so than trams. Buses are quicker at present, and would be even quicker and not held up by other traffic on the bus route following the tram route. The trams actually hold buses up now! And what happens when a tram breaks down? It’s all fked. When a bus breaks down you get the next.Edinburger said:
Compare that experience to boarding a bright and airy tram which glides along the trams unhindered by other trams with fewer and more strategically placed stops. The tell me what was the better experience.
Edinburger said:
I know a few people who commute from Livingston and other areas of West Lothian. they drive to Ingliston where they park free and get the tram into town.
Absolute no brainer.
sbarclay62 said:
If that's the case why are cities building and expanding rail networks all over their country? Genuine question.
Because they move people and cars away from the roads, reducing congestion.Because they don't hinder other traffic, either when building them or running them.
Because you can use them to move freight.
Because they're pretty 'green' and 'clean', especially compared to cars and lorries.
And I'd be willing to bet that per mile they're a load cheaper than pointless f
king trams.Edinburger said:
IThe Borders Railway has been open for three years and four million journeys have been made on it. Big improvement to commuting options for people of Midlothian and the Borders.
Yes, it's an improvement. But it's almost as if they weren't expecting it to be as successful as it actually is. Constant delays, not enough carriages, not enough seats, cancellations, too few running during popular events at either end. It's quickly become outclassed and in need of improvement and that was apparent just after it started.5490 said:
Edinburger said:
IThe Borders Railway has been open for three years and four million journeys have been made on it. Big improvement to commuting options for people of Midlothian and the Borders.
Yes, it's an improvement. But it's almost as if they weren't expecting it to be as successful as it actually is. Constant delays, not enough carriages, not enough seats, cancellations, too few running during popular events at either end. It's quickly become outclassed and in need of improvement and that was apparent just after it started.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLcJsuRandw - Truth be told I'd have got up and left too rather than have to sit and listen to their constant whinging and rancid bile.
I caught Blackfords speach at the rally outside Parliment he really is a toxic bitter little man.
I caught Blackfords speach at the rally outside Parliment he really is a toxic bitter little man.
Klippie said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLcJsuRandw - Truth be told I'd have got up and left too rather than have to sit and listen to their constant whinging and rancid bile.
I caught Blackfords speach at the rally outside Parliment he really is a toxic bitter little man.
He has become a figure of ridicule in the HoC. An absolute bell end.I caught Blackfords speach at the rally outside Parliment he really is a toxic bitter little man.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...
You have to wonder if these daily trips to the Court of Session are an attempt to overthrow the Brexit process, or more to do with Joanna Cherry positioning herself in prime position to takeover from the lovely Nicola?
You have to wonder if these daily trips to the Court of Session are an attempt to overthrow the Brexit process, or more to do with Joanna Cherry positioning herself in prime position to takeover from the lovely Nicola?
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