Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

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hutchst

3,696 posts

95 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Gecko1978 said:
unintended consequences but if state schools no longer get access to facilities an some parents pull kids out to go to free state sector will the Scottish government deem it a success.
Absolutely. Chase all the wealthy families to England. Win-win.

Evercross

5,882 posts

63 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
No surprise that Edinburger is posted AWOL when an issue regarding the SNP's objective failure crops up, and the lack of justification for a related policy that is obviously biased becomes an issue.

The silence speaks volumes.

bp1

796 posts

207 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Gecko1978 said:
NoddyonNitrous said:
bp1 said:
ABZ RS6 said:
FamousPheasant said:
As per the SCIS: "Independent schools in Scotland dedicate over £30 million a year towards means tested bursaries. They also share facilities with the local community, as well as working in partnership with local authority schools to share staff expertise and teaching facilities to the benefit of all pupils involved."
The first cost saving the independent schools will make is to scrap all these effort because if they don’t I for one will be asking our Headmaster why not.
I'll be doing the same. They want to put costs up 20% then the charity/community work can gtf.
it starts in September
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50665658
unintended consequences but if state schools no longer get access to facilities an some parents pull kids out to go to free state sector will the Scottish government deem it a success.
4 years to go for the youngest one. Guess I'll just suck up the extra 20%. There goes the plans for a new garage/driveway then.
Robbing, jealous, small minded bds. Just about sums up the SNP and their supporters in my mind.

Big Robbo

319 posts

145 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Evercross said:
No surprise that Edinburger is posted AWOL when an issue regarding the SNP's objective failure crops up, and the lack of justification for a related policy that is obviously biased becomes an issue.

The silence speaks volumes.
Simply put you can't argue with facts. Most like Edinburger run away when you say provenfacts

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Big Robbo said:
Evercross said:
No surprise that Edinburger is posted AWOL when an issue regarding the SNP's objective failure crops up, and the lack of justification for a related policy that is obviously biased becomes an issue.

The silence speaks volumes.
Simply put you can't argue with facts. Most like Edinburger run away when you say provenfacts
Hey he’s a busy man. He’ll post his evidence to support his claims that employment has fallen and the FTSE250 is lower than June 2016.



Edited by simoid on Thursday 5th December 16:04

Borghetto

3,274 posts

182 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
technodup said:
B210bandit said:
You hate the Scots who want self government. It's like down here in England. The boomers hate the young, the country folks hate the townies, the English hate the non-English and leavers loather remainers. The Union doesn't have much left in it, really. It's a damp fart after a night of eating curry, leaving an uncomfortable feeling for all.
What a crock of st. You could say exactly the same about pretty much every other country out there. Oooh, older folk don't understand youngsters and vice versa, what original thoughts you have there.
As good an example as we're likely to get of the SNP education program.

Evercross

5,882 posts

63 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Borghetto said:
technodup said:
B210bandit said:
You hate the Scots who want self government. It's like down here in England. The boomers hate the young, the country folks hate the townies, the English hate the non-English and leavers loather remainers. The Union doesn't have much left in it, really. It's a damp fart after a night of eating curry, leaving an uncomfortable feeling for all.
What a crock of st. You could say exactly the same about pretty much every other country out there. Oooh, older folk don't understand youngsters and vice versa, what original thoughts you have there.
As good an example as we're likely to get of the SNP education program.
B210 is this thread's equivalent of someone wearing a sandwich board with the words 'The End of the World is Nigh'. Go back through his posts and they are all identical - 'The Union is Dooomed!'.

ABZ RS6

749 posts

102 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
hutchst said:
Absolutely. Chase all the wealthy families to England. Win-win.
Both me and my wife hold senior positions in large O&G companies. We are well aware of corporate plans to head South should the situation with these clowns get any worse.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
Big Robbo said:
Evercross said:
No surprise that Edinburger is posted AWOL when an issue regarding the SNP's objective failure crops up, and the lack of justification for a related policy that is obviously biased becomes an issue.

The silence speaks volumes.
Simply put you can't argue with facts. Most like Edinburger run away when you say provenfacts
What are you getting your knickers in a twist about? Why am I being slandered again? I was working. I can't sit on PH 24/7 hitting the refresh button. Some of us have jobs! I'm kidding.

I've sped-read the last few pages and you seem to be annoyed at the proposal whereby private schools will be taxed full business rates after the change in charitable status? Is that right?

If so, and if you're desperate for my view, my thoughts are mixed. Firstly, I've never ever understood why private schools (and some other bodies) qualify for charitable status. Secondly, this proposed change will impact both the private and the state sector significantly.

I believe Edinburgh has the highest proportion of private school pupils in Scotland so this change will impact the good people of Edinburgh at both private and state schools, especially if there is an exodus of private school pupils.

I think a lot of parents of private school pupils will be able to stomach the increase in fees. If you're so close to the bone that you're saying this increase will result in your child being moved to a state school then I think that's down to deeply questionable financial planning and priorities on your part.

There will be a big impact on the state sector too. Regardless on where you sit on the political spectrum, its very difficult to justify private schools having charitable status tax relief. So I see this as a correction rather than anything else.

This change is no secret - it was raised three years ago. And it will land in other parts of the UK soon too, What I do regret is that fewer families will be able to choose private education and the sector will become more elite.


So there's my initial thoughts. Not sure whether I should be flattered or concerned that a few of you were eagerly awaiting my thoughts!

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
What are you getting your knickers in a twist about? Why am I being slandered again? I was working. I can't sit on PH 24/7 hitting the refresh button. Some of us have jobs! I'm kidding.

I've sped-read the last few pages and you seem to be annoyed at the proposal whereby private schools will be taxed full business rates after the change in charitable status? Is that right?

If so, and if you're desperate for my view, my thoughts are mixed. Firstly, I've never ever understood why private schools (and some other bodies) qualify for charitable status. Secondly, this proposed change will impact both the private and the state sector significantly.

I believe Edinburgh has the highest proportion of private school pupils in Scotland so this change will impact the good people of Edinburgh at both private and state schools, especially if there is an exodus of private school pupils.

I think a lot of parents of private school pupils will be able to stomach the increase in fees. If you're so close to the bone that you're saying this increase will result in your child being moved to a state school then I think that's down to deeply questionable financial planning and priorities on your part.

There will be a big impact on the state sector too. Regardless on where you sit on the political spectrum, its very difficult to justify private schools having charitable status tax relief. So I see this as a correction rather than anything else.

This change is no secret - it was raised three years ago. And it will land in other parts of the UK soon too, What I do regret is that fewer families will be able to choose private education and the sector will become more elite.


So there's my initial thoughts. Not sure whether I should be flattered or concerned that a few of you were eagerly awaiting my thoughts!
Thanks for admitting your inability to understand the issue.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
What are you getting your knickers in a twist about? Why am I being slandered again? I was working. I can't sit on PH 24/7 hitting the refresh button. Some of us have jobs! I'm kidding.

I've sped-read the last few pages and you seem to be annoyed at the proposal whereby private schools will be taxed full business rates after the change in charitable status? Is that right?

If so, and if you're desperate for my view, my thoughts are mixed. Firstly, I've never ever understood why private schools (and some other bodies) qualify for charitable status. Secondly, this proposed change will impact both the private and the state sector significantly.

I believe Edinburgh has the highest proportion of private school pupils in Scotland so this change will impact the good people of Edinburgh at both private and state schools, especially if there is an exodus of private school pupils.

I think a lot of parents of private school pupils will be able to stomach the increase in fees. If you're so close to the bone that you're saying this increase will result in your child being moved to a state school then I think that's down to deeply questionable financial planning and priorities on your part.

There will be a big impact on the state sector too. Regardless on where you sit on the political spectrum, its very difficult to justify private schools having charitable status tax relief. So I see this as a correction rather than anything else.

This change is no secret - it was raised three years ago. And it will land in other parts of the UK soon too, What I do regret is that fewer families will be able to choose private education and the sector will become more elite.


So there's my initial thoughts. Not sure whether I should be flattered or concerned that a few of you were eagerly awaiting my thoughts!
Thanks for admitting your inability to understand the issue.
So why do private schools qualify for charitable status?

I'm heading off to a meeting so won't be around to reply for a while. Just thought I'd add that before my integrity is being questioned.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
So why do private schools qualify for charitable status?

I'm heading off to a meeting so won't be around to reply for a while. Just thought I'd add that before my integrity is being questioned.
Because they do lots of charitable things, presumably. Teach promising kids for free who can’t afford the fees, etc

DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
They also reduce the load (and necessary spending) on the state school system, despite their parents paying for a state education through their taxes.

I have no idea of the sums involved (and no inclination to go Googling) but it would not surprise me if the tax breaks go nowhere near covering the cost if all those private school pupils had to have their education funded by the state.

s2kjock

1,677 posts

146 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
So why do private schools qualify for charitable status?
From a technical perspective they pass "the charity test" in Scotland in so far as they (a) carry out activities in line with one of the approved charitable purposes (education in this instance), and (b) they provide public benefit.

Test (b) is the tricky one obviously.

Ways they meet (b) are principally by providing means tested bursaries and providing use of their facilities to community and other groups.

The Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR) has reviewed every single independent school in Scotland and indeed prioritised them given their risk under this test, and subject to a few who were directed to tweak a few things, they all "passed" - this was a while back now.

Unless the SG decide to amend the 2005 Charities Act definitions or use influence in some other way to persuade OSCR to interpret the law differently, they won't "lose charitable status".

The business rates issue was quite a specific targeted approach to a specific relief - interestingly IIRC the report leading to it also recommended that the relief be removed from local government "arms length organisations" (ALEOS) that they had hived off various sports and other activities into to benefit from tax reliefs under charitable status.

The loss of rates relief is likely just reduce bursary provision to cover the cost ....... which may lead in turn to more problems passing test (b).

These schools are suffering from big hikes in pension contributions just now (most are members of public sector related teaching schemes) so any impact on the bottom line is unhelpful.

Although many parents are sufficiently well off that they can weather large increases in fees, there are a significant amount for whom affordability is very marginal - if these pupils are lost then it impacts on the financial viability of the sector ie there are simply not enough megabucks parents around to support a reduced sector.

The big killer for the sector with loss of charitable status is potential for capital gains tax to be charged on their assets as they de-register as charities.

Having to charge VAT on fees, as muted by Labour, is another frightener for the sector.

Evercross

5,882 posts

63 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
I've never ever understood why private schools (and some other bodies) qualify for charitable status.
That's the trouble with speed-reading. The answer was given (and linked to) in the last couple of pages of this thread, and have since been spelled out to you again.

What I think you mean is that you haven't bothered to avail yourself to the reasons why private schools qualify for charitable status and settled on the same biased and ignorant opinion that the decision to remove their tax relief is intended to appeal to.

Your latest reply really is an irony. You frequently come in here criticising the level of discussion in the thread and the related issues when by you own admission you don't take the time to appraise yourself of them fully, then present your view through Nationalist blinkers.

Then you wonder why you are called out for it!?

You are right - no one has the time to be dealing with this 24-7, but don't profess on it either unless you are prepared to back yourself up. FTSE and employment figures come to mind......!

Edited by Evercross on Friday 6th December 14:43

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
It always reminds me of when the SNP told us Scotland contributes more than it receives from exchequer: 9.6% of UK tax receipts but only received 9.3% to spend. Of course the 9.3% of £600bn was bigger than 9.6% of £550bn or whatever it was.

The Nationalists and their supporters - inventing fake news for years before anyone else.

technodup

7,576 posts

129 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
The knives are out.

Wings of Scotland said:
So we’ll say what we’ve felt for quite a while now but bitten our tongue on in the name of the movement: regardless of the outcome of next week’s election, Nicola Sturgeon needs to stand down, and the sooner the better. In this site’s view, there is no chance whatsoever of independence being achieved under her leadership, and to be honest it’s been some time since we’ve believed she was even trying.

The woke-infested SNP is a trainwreck. It’s time to get it back on the track.
It seems also that they're having some internal anti-semitism and transphobia issues. Cracks appearing all over the place. If as is rumoured the fat prick from Bath starts a party it'll split the movement in two, they'll fight between themselves, support will dwindle and the rest of us can ignore it all. Bring it on.


Borghetto

3,274 posts

182 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
. Just thought I'd add that before my integrity is being questioned.
I shouldn't lose too much sleep Burger, because most followers of this thread think you wouldn't recognise integrity, if it crept up and stuck a 15 inch horses penis up your rectum - I think that's what Malcolm Tucker might say.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
Borghetto said:
I think that's what Malcolm Tucker might say.
Nah, bit tame hehe

Pastor Of Muppets

3,250 posts

61 months

Friday 6th December 2019
quotequote all
technodup said:
The knives are out.

Wings of Scotland said:
So we’ll say what we’ve felt for quite a while now but bitten our tongue on in the name of the movement: regardless of the outcome of next week’s election, Nicola Sturgeon needs to stand down, and the sooner the better. In this site’s view, there is no chance whatsoever of independence being achieved under her leadership, and to be honest it’s been some time since we’ve believed she was even trying.

The woke-infested SNP is a trainwreck. It’s time to get it back on the track.
It seems also that they're having some internal anti-semitism and transphobia issues. Cracks appearing all over the place. If as is rumoured the fat prick from Bath starts a party it'll split the movement in two, they'll fight between themselves, support will dwindle and the rest of us can ignore it all. Bring it on.
Indeed. I have to say though, If I was a Nat I would be extremely worried about having Sturgeon and Blackford
as the main faces of Indy, seriously, look at both them, there are no redeeming features about either of them,
Sturgeon can certainly give it some mouth but the content from both of them, and most of their clan is generally loathsome.

For the SNP to have any real chance of achieving their utmost priority they will need the very basic requirements
of likeable leaders, an overwhelming impression of integrity and honesty and an impeccable portfolio of long
term governance, they currently have none of that, nowhere near it.

There certainly seems to be a lot of people talking negatively of the SNP just now and i firmly believe one of
the main reasons is Sturgeon and her irrepressible and profoundly unbearable rabble rousing, there is only so
much the public can take and it's looking very much like that limit has been reached.

It's time the Sturgeon was reeled in and netted,hook line and sinker.

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