Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Strocky said:
Answer A, that's not how international law works re successor states, re Brexit/EU membership that was a trade agreement entered into by the UK Gov of the day for tangible/intangible benefits (and subsequently a reason why some wanted to leave)
Answer B, Scotland isn't subsidised, Scotland gets around 50% of the it's tax revenues returned (after deductions from the UK Gov)
As an independent country Scotland could decide to either raise taxes or cut services if required to do so fiscally
The UK could have had a £1Tn+ sovereign oil fund like Norway (in fact Tony Benn argued for it but was overuled by Labour's cabiner & PM at the time)
It's been squandered by successive governments to either clear IMF loans or to give tax breaks to big business
You can look around the globe and see other countries where the state pension is 2 to 3 times that of the UK, where inequality is lesser, where paternity and unemployment rights are far greater, look at their GDP and Scotland's and make an analysis, could Scotland be a success (not just fiscally but as an egalitarian state) or would it be like Greece without the sun/Panama without the hats/Norway without the oil
What independant currency would you use?Answer B, Scotland isn't subsidised, Scotland gets around 50% of the it's tax revenues returned (after deductions from the UK Gov)
As an independent country Scotland could decide to either raise taxes or cut services if required to do so fiscally
The UK could have had a £1Tn+ sovereign oil fund like Norway (in fact Tony Benn argued for it but was overuled by Labour's cabiner & PM at the time)
It's been squandered by successive governments to either clear IMF loans or to give tax breaks to big business
You can look around the globe and see other countries where the state pension is 2 to 3 times that of the UK, where inequality is lesser, where paternity and unemployment rights are far greater, look at their GDP and Scotland's and make an analysis, could Scotland be a success (not just fiscally but as an egalitarian state) or would it be like Greece without the sun/Panama without the hats/Norway without the oil
Evercross said:
Sturgeon might be out on her arse by then. 2021 Holyrood referendum - why do you think she is in such a hurry?
I don't think she's in a hurry. She needs calling out. I doubt a majority of Scots would be up for the whole of the UK participating in the next indy vote. So it'd be killed before it started.
Reading the news on Swinson, she only lost her seat by 150 votes. If those margins are typical then despite the 48 seats, Sturgeon should be on a sticky wicket.
I really don't understand the mentality of the Scots where the SNP are concerned.
technodup said:
oesn't sound very independent to me.
I'd have thought you'd have been an advocate of outsourcing?As an example RTE pays around £20m PA to broadcast BBC 1, BBC2, BBC3 and BBC4 on Irish national TV
Unless you're opining any country* that outsources a major public service isn't really independent?
- basically every country in the world that's seen how a loom works and understands sheckles/bartering
Ayahuasca said:
Couple of little issues remain:
What currency would an independent Scotland use, and how would they control it?
If they join the EU, what would the land border with the brexited UK look like?
I am not sure Scotland qualifies for EU Membership.What currency would an independent Scotland use, and how would they control it?
If they join the EU, what would the land border with the brexited UK look like?
Scotland’s budget deficit – including revenues from the North Sea – is at 7% ofGDP. Four times as big as that for the UK as a whole. It needs to be below 3% for membership.
Scotland's revenues are £300 per head lower than for the UK while its spending is more than £1,500 per head higher.
But yes. A hard border. With a wall.
Strocky said:
Answer A, that's not how international law works re successor states, re Brexit/EU membership that was a trade agreement entered into by the UK Gov of the day for tangible/intangible benefits (and subsequently a reason why some wanted to leave)
Answer B, Scotland isn't subsidised, Scotland gets around 50% of the it's tax revenues returned (after deductions from the UK Gov)
As an independent country Scotland could decide to either raise taxes or cut services if required to do so fiscally
The UK could have had a £1Tn+ sovereign oil fund like Norway (in fact Tony Benn argued for it but was overuled by Labour's cabiner & PM at the time)
It's been squandered by successive governments initially to clear IMF loans and latterly to give tax breaks to big business
You can look around the globe and see other countries where the state pension is 2 to 3 times that of the UK, where inequality is lesser, where paternity and unemployment rights are far greater, look at their GDP and Scotland's and make an analysis :
Could Scotland be a success (not just fiscally but as an egalitarian state) or would it be like Greece without the sun/Panama without the hats/Norway without the oil?
Oh good - it was getting a bit sensible in here with Edinburger away Answer B, Scotland isn't subsidised, Scotland gets around 50% of the it's tax revenues returned (after deductions from the UK Gov)
As an independent country Scotland could decide to either raise taxes or cut services if required to do so fiscally
The UK could have had a £1Tn+ sovereign oil fund like Norway (in fact Tony Benn argued for it but was overuled by Labour's cabiner & PM at the time)
It's been squandered by successive governments initially to clear IMF loans and latterly to give tax breaks to big business
You can look around the globe and see other countries where the state pension is 2 to 3 times that of the UK, where inequality is lesser, where paternity and unemployment rights are far greater, look at their GDP and Scotland's and make an analysis :
Could Scotland be a success (not just fiscally but as an egalitarian state) or would it be like Greece without the sun/Panama without the hats/Norway without the oil?
As an Englishman from the north of England, it does not matter one jot to me if Scotland is independent or not, it's a different country anyway with a border, give 'em their referendum if they want, but if they (again) vote to stay in the UK, wee Jimmy Krankie should shut the f
k up, and not keep bleating on about this for the next twenty years.
k up, and not keep bleating on about this for the next twenty years.Big-Bo-Beep said:
Thanks Columbo, that doesn't explain anything.
The total number of Lib Dem votes were not fairly represented in parliamentary seats,
they would do if we had a fit for purpose voting system.
The Lib Dems got 4 seats from approx 250,000 votes in Scotland so I'll ask your edited reply againThe total number of Lib Dem votes were not fairly represented in parliamentary seats,
they would do if we had a fit for purpose voting system.
Unless you don't think that the 4 countries* in the UK deserve some kind of "proportional representation" when 85% of the voting population decides between Labour or the Tories to see who leads the country?
Ironically the Lib Dems extracted a AV Referendum in the 2010 coalition, lost by a mile, based on David Blunkett* opining that it would cost £250m to change from the FPTP system
After the win he admitted they made up the figure to sound plausible enough to scupper it, sound familiar?
As you were, Kojak
- one of my favourite jokes, David Blunkett got a cheese grater in his secret santa, said it was the most violent book he'd ever read
McGee_22 said:
What independant currency would you use?
See our soon to be Finance Minister confirming it*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRIQL4lvIqU
- The cabinet narrowly voted down my suggestion of "yer maw"
Murph7355 said:
I don't think she's in a hurry.
She needs calling out. I doubt a majority of Scots would be up for the whole of the UK participating in the next indy vote. So it'd be killed before it started.
Reading the news on Swinson, she only lost her seat by 150 votes. If those margins are typical then despite the 48 seats, Sturgeon should be on a sticky wicket.
I really don't understand the mentality of the Scots where the SNP are concerned.
Does anyone want to enlighten him?She needs calling out. I doubt a majority of Scots would be up for the whole of the UK participating in the next indy vote. So it'd be killed before it started.
Reading the news on Swinson, she only lost her seat by 150 votes. If those margins are typical then despite the 48 seats, Sturgeon should be on a sticky wicket.
I really don't understand the mentality of the Scots where the SNP are concerned.
It's a bold claim by the Scots Tories, Bawjaws has a mandate with 43.6% share of the UK turnout, the SNP with 45% of the share of the Scottish turnout
NDA said:
Ayahuasca said:
Couple of little issues remain:
What currency would an independent Scotland use, and how would they control it?
If they join the EU, what would the land border with the brexited UK look like?
I am not sure Scotland qualifies for EU Membership.What currency would an independent Scotland use, and how would they control it?
If they join the EU, what would the land border with the brexited UK look like?
Scotland’s budget deficit – including revenues from the North Sea – is at 7% ofGDP. Four times as big as that for the UK as a whole. It needs to be below 3% for membership.
Scotland's revenues are £300 per head lower than for the UK while its spending is more than £1,500 per head higher.
But yes. A hard border. With a wall.
Also how can a country that's only allowed to borrow 0.005% of half of it's revenues & has to balance it's budget by law (after WM deductions) run a 7% deficit?
It's not exactly an endorsement of the current status quo, maybe that's reflected in the votes up here the past wee while
Strocky said:
Murph7355 said:
I don't think she's in a hurry.
She needs calling out. I doubt a majority of Scots would be up for the whole of the UK participating in the next indy vote. So it'd be killed before it started.
Reading the news on Swinson, she only lost her seat by 150 votes. If those margins are typical then despite the 48 seats, Sturgeon should be on a sticky wicket.
I really don't understand the mentality of the Scots where the SNP are concerned.
Does anyone want to enlighten him?She needs calling out. I doubt a majority of Scots would be up for the whole of the UK participating in the next indy vote. So it'd be killed before it started.
Reading the news on Swinson, she only lost her seat by 150 votes. If those margins are typical then despite the 48 seats, Sturgeon should be on a sticky wicket.
I really don't understand the mentality of the Scots where the SNP are concerned.
It's a bold claim by the Scots Tories, Bawjaws has a mandate with 43.6% share of the UK turnout, the SNP with 45% of the share of the Scottish turnout
All the SNP did was say "vote for us to stop brexit". People did that. Considering she only got 45% and now also says alot of her voters wont want indy. Doesnt look good for her.
Should focus on winning the next Scottish election with the line of indy ref 2. Untill then do your day job and prove you can actually run a country because I have yet to see much proof. Theres not a chance in hell she will get a indy ref until brexit is done and the dust has settled anyway.
Strocky said:
technodup said:
oesn't sound very independent to me.
I'd have thought you'd have been an advocate of outsourcing?As an example RTE pays around £20m PA to broadcast BBC 1, BBC2, BBC3 and BBC4 on Irish national TV
Unless you're opining any country* that outsources a major public service isn't really independent?
- basically every country in the world that's seen how a loom works and understands sheckles/bartering
The problem you have then when you 'outsource' major services like that is you'll have no control, which is exactly the complaint you have at the moment ffs. This independence jape sounds less like real independence every time it's mooted.
But bring it the f
k on. As someone on the winning side of the last several elections, and both referendums I welcome the chance to prove you fuds wrong for a final time. I suspect I'm not the only one.Your lot seem to believe the no side is running scared. I think that in the face of any deal/no deal scenario any potential gains for the SNP side would disappear, and that we'd likely win by a larger margin next time. Be careful what you wish for.
NDA said:
Some in the EU would make Scottish membership difficult to discourage Catalan nationalists....Even if they did get a free pass over their dreadful economy.
Nope Spanish constitution prohibits even holding a referendum, at present UK constitution doesn'tYou're comparing apples with oranges unfortunately
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-spain-politics-s...
technodup said:
ight, so presumably we'll be borrowing the BBC as well then? So that's the BBC, DVLA, currency, any more for any more? Army? HMRC?
The problem you have then when you 'outsource' major services like that is you'll have no control, which is exactly the complaint you have at the moment ffs. This independence jape sounds less like real independence every time it's mooted.
But bring it the fk on. As someone on the winning side of the last several elections, and both referendums I welcome the chance to prove you fuds wrong for a final time. I suspect I'm not the only one.
Your lot seem to believe the no side is running scared. I think that in the face of any deal/no deal scenario any potential gains for the SNP side would disappear, and that we'd likely win by a larger margin next time. Be careful what you wish for.
Nope outsourcing via the DVLA in the short term makes economic sense however not too sure how much control a "database" can inflict on a population? Is your dandruff silver and shiny??The problem you have then when you 'outsource' major services like that is you'll have no control, which is exactly the complaint you have at the moment ffs. This independence jape sounds less like real independence every time it's mooted.
But bring it the f
k on. As someone on the winning side of the last several elections, and both referendums I welcome the chance to prove you fuds wrong for a final time. I suspect I'm not the only one.Your lot seem to believe the no side is running scared. I think that in the face of any deal/no deal scenario any potential gains for the SNP side would disappear, and that we'd likely win by a larger margin next time. Be careful what you wish for.
The BBC is for those sad acts that would want their Strictly and Eastenders fix and could easily be added to their Sky sub (I wouldn't want those propagandists anywhere near an iS media)
Re your flawed analysis and impotent faux rage, never change Techers*
- You lost as recently as last night no matter how much you want to deny it, electorally you're BOTH Scottish and British
We're back to all the same issues discussed ad infinitum over the last eight volumes of this thread.
There's no silver bullet, no hidden wealth, no easy answers to the obvious issues. This matters not a jot to some, which is fine, but there needs to be some brutal honesty that nothing has changed.
There's no silver bullet, no hidden wealth, no easy answers to the obvious issues. This matters not a jot to some, which is fine, but there needs to be some brutal honesty that nothing has changed.
Leithen said:
We're back to all the same issues discussed ad infinitum over the last eight volumes of this thread.
There's no silver bullet, no hidden wealth, no easy answers to the obvious issues. This matters not a jot to some, which is fine, but there needs to be some brutal honesty that nothing has changed.
Somewhat changed though ?There's no silver bullet, no hidden wealth, no easy answers to the obvious issues. This matters not a jot to some, which is fine, but there needs to be some brutal honesty that nothing has changed.
, SNP have more MP's to shout and snort derision at Boris in the commons but, this time the tories have a working majority and a mandate, and can pass what the f*** legislation they want. The SNP's dream of being in big-time politics and holding the keys to power is over.
I await with much anticipation Boris's derisive question time put-downs at the expense of the windbag Blackford
Murph7355 said:
I really don't understand the mentality of the Scots where the SNP are concerned.
It’s pretty simple. A bunch are for independence, so vote SNP. Some are pro-union, but know there needs to be a referendum to go independent. Therefore they are ok to vote SNP as it would be stopped at a referendum again (most likely). Whereas if you don’t trust Boris there is not much you can do to stop him. So vote for the party that you can block the major issue you disagree on when the referendum is called.Big-Bo-Beep said:
Somewhat changed though ?
, SNP have more MP's to shout and snort derision at Boris in the commons but, this time the tories have a working majority and a mandate, and can pass what the f*** legislation they want. The SNP's dream of being in big-time politics and holding the keys to power is over.
I await with much anticipation Boris's derisive question time put-downs at the expense of the windbag Blackford
The SNP support is in decline since the referendum. After the bounce in 2015, peak SNP of almost 50% votes and nearly every seat in Scotland, they’re back down to 45%. And that’s with nasty Tories and Brexit. Ship sailed for independence and all that remains is sore losers keeping the ‘experts in winning large minorities’ in power while Scotland declines., SNP have more MP's to shout and snort derision at Boris in the commons but, this time the tories have a working majority and a mandate, and can pass what the f*** legislation they want. The SNP's dream of being in big-time politics and holding the keys to power is over.
I await with much anticipation Boris's derisive question time put-downs at the expense of the windbag Blackford
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