Will May Pay or Hope it Fades Away? £55b exit bill...
Discussion
paulrockliffe said:
It's a made up number. The real number is different and will be approved through Parliament. Just like any Brexit bill.
Ok, but the number frequently banded around was £1bn, so I'm unsure why someone would introduce a made up number 5x the generally agreed figure?!sidicks said:
Ok, but the number frequently banded around was £1bn, so I'm unsure why someone would introduce a made up number 5x the generally agreed figure?!
In order to improve the chances of getting close to what you really want you create the illusion that your expectations are much higher, so the other side thinks they are getting away cheaply. Then, after receipt of the funding, sudden necessary overrides in budget are discovered and various cost overruns are agreed which, because of commercial sensitivity, are undisclosed. It's business as usual. Thorodin said:
In order to improve the chances of getting close to what you really want you create the illusion that your expectations are much higher, so the other side thinks they are getting away cheaply. Then, after receipt of the funding, sudden necessary overrides in budget are discovered and various cost overruns are agreed which, because of commercial sensitivity, are undisclosed. It's business as usual.
None of which explains why the OP quoted £5bh in his post - maybe I'm reading too much into it!Mrr T said:
Sway said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
paulrockliffe said:
If David Davis decides he wants to, well that's nice for him, but there's no legislation that allows him to just give taxpayers money away just because he's a Government Minister. For good reason.
The Government can do pretty much what is likes with the tax revenue it collects.At the original poster said the UK Government can pretty much spend money as it wishes. A resent example is the £5bp bung to N Ireland to get DUP backing.
Are you really suggesting there's such poor financial control that multi billion pound spends can be authorised at will by a single person?
Sway said:
No, they can announce the intention to spend that money in NI, however there are no budgets created for it until at the very least they have presented it to Parliament to be voted on. Fortunately for them, in this instance the spend is to achieve a S&C deal, so they can guarantee a majority vote in Parliament.
Are you really suggesting there's such poor financial control that multi billion pound spends can be authorised at will by a single person?
Probably semantics both ways.Are you really suggesting there's such poor financial control that multi billion pound spends can be authorised at will by a single person?
In a majority govt, or even the S&C arrangement we have now, it'll all but certainly be passed when it becomes the Finance Bill. So in that respect, they're broadly right.
In a minority government/coalition that's not certain so you're more broadly right. And would also be if the govt members were likely to vote down the chancellor's arrangements.
Whilst an amusing prospect if we really want to f
k things up here, I don't see it happening. sidicks said:
None of which explains why the OP quoted £5bh in his post - maybe I'm reading too much into it!
You're looking for an explanation for extorted Gov expenditure in extremis? Good luck with that. (£5bn was the figure doing the merry-go-rounds at the time).Edited by Thorodin on Tuesday 5th September 19:54
Thorodin said:
You're looking for an explanation for extorted Gov expenditure in extremis? Good luck with that. (£5bn was the figure doing the merry-go-rounds at the time).
The frequently published number was £1bn.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40403434
https://www.ft.com/content/7bf09766-5a66-11e7-9bc8...
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 5th September 21:02
Dazed and Confused said:
B'stard Child said:
Mrr T said:
If team leave had produced a creditable plan for brexit I would likely have voted the other way. I also looked at team leave, Grove, BJ, Foxy, IDS, and through do I want them in charge of the brexit negotiations.
So far I think my decision has been justified.
If team remain had produced a credible justification for remaining as an alternative to the OMG the world is gonna end if we leave I may have voted differently So far I think my decision has been justified.
However I have not read anything anywhere that can quantify the benefits of our continued membership of the EU
So like you I think my decision has been justified
It's still an open offer to come and have a look at an old market town if you want to see the downsides to "uncontrolled" migration the river pathway still means when walking a dog that it's human feces you need to watch out for
Dazed and Confused said:
So it's now Team Remain's fault that we're upto our necks in doo-doo?
They really could not have made it more clear.
Are we....... Sun rose yesterday and set tonight - the earth still revolves and the wagon still has wheels on it....They really could not have made it more clear.
loafer123 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Anyone know how much tariffs the UK collects and gives to the EU?
£3.1bn in 2015/16 according to this site:https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/04/04/336...
B'stard Child said:
loafer123 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Anyone know how much tariffs the UK collects and gives to the EU?
£3.1bn in 2015/16 according to this site:https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/04/04/336...
Remember the Coke and Hookers extra bill we had to pay? That was because they assessed our black economy (coke and hookers) bumped up our GNI figure, so we had to pay more, even though no tax income for that is received by MHG.
jsf said:
B'stard Child said:
loafer123 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Anyone know how much tariffs the UK collects and gives to the EU?
£3.1bn in 2015/16 according to this site:https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/04/04/336...
B'stard Child said:
jsf said:
B'stard Child said:
loafer123 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Anyone know how much tariffs the UK collects and gives to the EU?
£3.1bn in 2015/16 according to this site:https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/04/04/336...
£3 billion tariff
£2.5 billon VAT
£11.4 billion GNI
£4.5 billion rebate
gives £12.2 billion Gross payment to the EU
we get back from the EU £4.1 billion public sector receipts, most of which is farm subsidies.
we paid £8.1 billion Net
for 2015/16
we paid £10.75 billion Net and only received back £2.8 billion
The bonkers system we are in has an EU budget that is set for a multi-period of time, but our payments are calculated yearly, if the economy of another country does worse, the calculations mean that we have to pay more to make up the shortfall. In theory if the Eurozone went tits up, we would have to make up the budget deficit from those countries, because the EU budget is fixed. This is why we paid more in 2015/16 than we are this year, as the other EU economies didn't do as badly.
Like everything EU, its far too complicated and you cant know what you have to pay because you are relying on other countries in the block and how they manage their economy. You don't even know what you are getting back to pay the farmers their subsidies. Crazy way to plan.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...
“Cabinet agrees to increase £20bn Brexit divorce bill“
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/tory-ba...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/tory-ba...
BlackLabel said:
“Cabinet agrees to increase £20bn Brexit divorce bill“
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/tory-ba...
£1 should cover it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/tory-ba...
https://youtu.be/I4h8IZ_qf48
What do people think about this quirk and apparently treaty preventing any formal signing off of trade deals from within the EU by a leaving nation.
What do people think about this quirk and apparently treaty preventing any formal signing off of trade deals from within the EU by a leaving nation.
No matter what you agree to pay, what conditions you are prepared to put up with, however you try to accommodate the other side, nothing will ever satisfy because the other side is not interested in any settlement other than capitulation.
We can adopt a conciliatory attitude in the hope of maintaining a reasonable relationship later but it’s a false premise. They are terrified of the domino effect of UK departure and are determined to set an impossible target in the hope of a reversal and as a threat to other nations on the brink.
We are in danger of becoming the casino’s favourite punter – chasing his losses with ever more increasing desperation until he caves. Divorce bill? We should send them a bill. They want the money settled first so any trade agreement can be seen in the light of losing a huge chunk of money unless we modify our expectations. They have still failed to provide any evidence of a legal basis for settlement or a particular itemised level of indebtedness to back up a demand for money. They repeat ad infinitum "More! More! More!". It's a protection racket.
What a pathetic spectacle we have become, bending the knee to these unelected puffed up mal-administrators. The traitors and EU apologists in the government have neither backbone nor shame.
We can adopt a conciliatory attitude in the hope of maintaining a reasonable relationship later but it’s a false premise. They are terrified of the domino effect of UK departure and are determined to set an impossible target in the hope of a reversal and as a threat to other nations on the brink.
We are in danger of becoming the casino’s favourite punter – chasing his losses with ever more increasing desperation until he caves. Divorce bill? We should send them a bill. They want the money settled first so any trade agreement can be seen in the light of losing a huge chunk of money unless we modify our expectations. They have still failed to provide any evidence of a legal basis for settlement or a particular itemised level of indebtedness to back up a demand for money. They repeat ad infinitum "More! More! More!". It's a protection racket.
What a pathetic spectacle we have become, bending the knee to these unelected puffed up mal-administrators. The traitors and EU apologists in the government have neither backbone nor shame.
p1stonhead said:
amgmcqueen said:
If May pays this bill, then she may as well roll out the red carpet for Corbyn at No.10
there is no ifI think a bad deal will result in discontent (especially if we don't break free of EU courts jurisdiction after the transition or other unacceptable controls).
A good deal with money paid will be fine, and Tory voters on either side of Brexit will be happy enough,
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