Term-time holiday dad loses court battle

Term-time holiday dad loses court battle

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Discussion

55palfers

Original Poster:

5,893 posts

163 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39504338

He finally lost at the Supreme Court (what a spooky surprise)

If missing a few days schooling is so vital then why do the kids lose time for "teacher training days"?

I don't have kids, but having been trying to book a holiday that clashes with school holidays and seeing how much more it costs - I do feel for parents.

What are the PH thoughts?

John145

2,447 posts

155 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Bad decision.

Practically, you'll be criminalising many parents who try their best for their children which yes includes a "better" holiday in term time.

In this modern age teachers should be able to provide electronic learning arrangements that mean pupils can learn from anywhere in the world. Of course not to the same standard but enough to keep up for an absence of a week.

I missed a few weeks of school over the years for travelling with family. You learn things that are extracurricular which is probably why the left leaning educational institutions don't like it.

Redlake27

2,255 posts

243 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Good decision.

I agree that travel broadens horizons and aids education, but parents have 12 weeks a year to choose from that don't cause disruption to academic planning.


mattyn1

5,728 posts

154 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Please correct me if I am wrong as I have only briefly read on this today but the real issue here is the parents did not request permission to take the child on holiday during term time.

In my experience with my kids schools, a simple letter results in permission granted and all is good.

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Redlake27 said:
Good decision.

I agree that travel broadens horizons and aids education, but parents have 12 weeks a year to choose from that don't cause disruption to academic planning.
12 weeks at twice (or more!) the price as well as dates being restricted by many companies having many employees who take time off during school holidays meaning you may not get the time off.

The odd week off doesn't hurt anyway lol. I had around 80% attendance at school Y10-11 and I turned out ok.

RemyMartin81D

6,759 posts

204 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Good decision.

Dad is typical entitled prick. Why should the rules not apply for him, don't like paying too much for holidays? Well boo hoo. Seriously are all parents deranged as to not realise about school holidays and what having kids means you have to accept your life will change?

Chester draws

1,412 posts

109 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Schools (IME) can not and will not authorise holidays within term time.

Where this guy went wrong was exceeding the unauthorised absence level. Hampshire schools it is clearly set at 10 half day sessions in any possible 100.

We took our two out last year in term time, they missed the last 4 days before Easter. Nothing was said or done.

Edwin Strohacker

3,879 posts

85 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
John145 said:
Bad decision.

Practically, you'll be criminalising many parents who try their best for their children which yes includes a "better" holiday in term time.

In this modern age teachers should be able to provide electronic learning arrangements that mean pupils can learn from anywhere in the world. Of course not to the same standard but enough to keep up for an absence of a week.

I missed a few weeks of school over the years for travelling with family. You learn things that are extracurricular which is probably why the left leaning educational institutions don't like it.
The supreme court judgement (which I've read) is an interpretation of the 1944 & 1996 education acts. Neither of which were enacted under Labour governments. It has nothing to do with left or right wing, simply imposing the law as it exists. I fail to see what other judgement they could have come up with in all honesty.

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0...

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
John145 said:
Bad decision.
You learn things that are extracurricular which is probably why the left leaning educational institutions don't like it.
Indeed.

When you go on holiday it's usually the Daily Mail reading UKIP voter that you find visiting all the cultural sites, ruins, monasteries and sites of historical interest. Whereas yer typical sandal-wearing lentil-muncher will be found draped over the poolside sunbed, lobster belly on display, having gorged himself on the AYCE breakfast buffet and waiting until 12 so he can get p1ssed on cheap lager....

rofl

Challo

10,043 posts

154 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Right outcome. If it had gone the fathers way then potentially could have set a precedent where schools have multiple kids out at anyone time and disrupting learning for the other kids.

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Hahaha.

Didn't he take his kid to Disney Land or something equally high brow?

So how much does he have to pay now?

I remember he was pretty smug a year ago on LBC saying that he had deep pockets almost daring the council to challenge him.

Will he take it to the ECHR? silly

hman

7,487 posts

193 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Redlake27 said:
I agree that travel broadens horizons and aids education, but parents have 12 weeks a year to choose from that don't cause disruption to academic planning.
3/10 - must try harder...

Remember that within those 12 weeks holidays typically cost 2-300% more than during term time so for some families the only time it is affordable to broaden their childrens horizons and education will be in one of the other weeks of the year.

This ruling was due to it being an UN-AUTHORISED absence from school, a reasonable request for school term time absence with a plan in place for how any school work will be completed should not be refused just on the grounds that its not within the 12 weeks a year.

Here is a real example:-

I recently (February 2017) sought permission from my childrens school to take both my children to Australia for 10 days, in term time, with a plan in place on how we will keep up with any home work - permission was granted and we submitted their homework /school work on our return...the academic planning of the school was unaffected.

My kids now know what life and culture is like for Australians by meeting and asking questions of the Australian people that they met, they gained an understanding of the history of Australia, saw how farms and industry differs to ours in the UK and saw a diverse range of animals and wildlife.

This experience cant be taught at school - and it would have been too expensive to even consider in school holidays.


Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Great decision.

This will not have been the odd instance. The parent needs to think about the sort of example being set to his kids, and the potential for disruption to the rest of their classmates ( I would not be at all surprised if the same parent moaned about the lack of attention his kid gets if they fall behind).

Yes, holidays in term time are expensive. Supply and demand. But they are not essential and there's plenty of choice for containing costs. Travel broadens the mind absolutely, but 2wks in Lanzarote doesn't count and is not the only option.

Kids are a choice and when you make that choice you should be accepting compromises. If you cannot do that, you shouldn't be having kids.

TheGroover

957 posts

274 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
He knew the rules and decided they didn't apply to him. You can argue all you like about the validity of the rules, but opinion is irrelevant here.
If he's going to flout the rules, he should suck up the punishment, shut the fk up and move on.

BertieWooster

3,229 posts

163 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
I note that the president of the Supreme Court stated that unauthorised absences have a disruptive effect. Perhaps teachers should not be allowed to strike from now on then as this would appear to be as equally disruptive.

r11co

6,244 posts

229 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
They should have said it was a 'pilgrimage' instead of a holiday.

(PS. Gotta love the stereotypical attacks on teachers, borne of repressed feelings of resentment due to teachers being the most authoritative figures most of us encountered for the majority of our rebellious pubescent years wink ).

Edited by r11co on Thursday 6th April 10:54

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
hman said:
Redlake27 said:
I agree that travel broadens horizons and aids education, but parents have 12 weeks a year to choose from that don't cause disruption to academic planning.
3/10 - must try harder...

Remember that within those 12 weeks holidays typically cost 2-300% more than during term time so for some families the only time it is affordable to broaden their childrens horizons and education will be in one of the other weeks of the year.

This ruling was due to it being an UN-AUTHORISED absence from school, a reasonable request for school term time absence with a plan in place for how any school work will be completed should not be refused just on the grounds that its not within the 12 weeks a year.

Here is a real example:-

I recently (February 2017) sought permission from my childrens school to take both my children to Australia for 10 days, in term time, with a plan in place on how we will keep up with any home work - permission was granted and we submitted their homework /school work on our return...the academic planning of the school was unaffected.

My kids now know what life and culture is like for Australians by meeting and asking questions of the Australian people that they met, they gained an understanding of the history of Australia, saw how farms and industry differs to ours in the UK and saw a diverse range of animals and wildlife.

This experience cant be taught at school - and it would have been too expensive to even consider in school holidays.
The problem is that most parents don't give a st about that and just want a cheap holiday in an all inclusive in Lanzagrotty mixing with other Brits.

I'm sure the dad really took his kid to Disney World to learn about American culture, global branding and hotel management.

Also, I feel sorry for the teachers because if loads of kids are being taken out of school by responsible parents, they'd have to create dozens of bespoke study plans tailored to the particular part of the curriculum they're teaching.

Edit: TBH, I have no idea why I feel so strongly about this. I don't have kids. silly

Edited by Hoofy on Thursday 6th April 10:58

chow pan toon

12,356 posts

236 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
55palfers said:
If missing a few days schooling is so vital then why do the kids lose time for "teacher training days"?
I'm not a teacher but I assume that it is easier to manage when everyone has missed the same day rather than when different kids have missed different fortnights here and there.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Redlake27 said:
Good decision.

I agree that travel broadens horizons and aids education, but parents have 12 weeks a year to choose from that don't cause disruption to academic planning.
Poor decision, providing the child concerned had a strong attendance record otherwise, and there was clear commitment to catch up on what was missed without requiring anything additional of the teacher

When I was at school, if I was sick then my parents would arrange to borrow the notes of someone at school and I'd have to catch up in my own time.

At the same time as penalising responsible parents trying to save money, we seem to allow other children to attend school on an ad hoc basis with no penalty for parents. It doesn't really make sense.

pmanson

13,374 posts

252 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
Chester draws said:
Schools (IME) can not and will not authorise holidays within term time.
My Son's school has just done exactly that for us for a week in July. We wrote and explained the circumstances and they approved it the same day.