Snap General Election?
Discussion
Einion Yrth said:
Tuna said:
taking house prices out of rpi.
This had a large inflationary effect on house prices, and only one party did it. Tuna said:
Einion Yrth said:
Tuna said:
taking house prices out of rpi.
This had a large inflationary effect on house prices, and only one party did it. turbobloke said:
Under the Conservatives, the deficit is down by nearly two-thirds as a % of GDP.
In their 2015 manifesto, Labour offered no date by which they would clear the deficit.
That's one way to avoid missing a target - avoid setting a target.
At the last election, Miliband attacked the Conservatives for wanting to shrink the State. Good for them! The Tories that is. It did Miliband and Labour no good at all.
Now we have Corbyn, who iirc has set a target using spending plans containing a £30bn black hole.
Where are you getting the deficit % to GDP figures from turbobloke?
alfie2244 said:
But a retiring 58yr old doesn't get a state pension until 65 so not a drain on the state as you seem to be saying.
65 -58 = 7. 26 - 7 = 19 so on balance my 20 yrs was far more accurate than your exaggerated 30 yrs?
Only a 33% exaggeration to make a point!
How many of those retired years would be in good health, fit and active?
Did you know that raising a child to the age of 21 costs more than the average semi-detached house? I could have had a nice stock of 4 semi BTL's to fund my retirement if it weren't for the kids ....Pesky old people eh.
I didn't say they became a burden on the state at 58 (though unlikely to be paying much if any tax if they have retired) I said they could expect to spend 30 years in retirement if they retired at 58 and at current life expectancies they can expect to live for 26 on average.65 -58 = 7. 26 - 7 = 19 so on balance my 20 yrs was far more accurate than your exaggerated 30 yrs?
Only a 33% exaggeration to make a point!
How many of those retired years would be in good health, fit and active?
Did you know that raising a child to the age of 21 costs more than the average semi-detached house? I could have had a nice stock of 4 semi BTL's to fund my retirement if it weren't for the kids ....Pesky old people eh.
It does rather put tales of getting up half hour before they went to bed to lick the road clean with their tongue into perspective.
Do you think the young people of today, on average, will be retiring in their late 50s, or even drastically reducing their working hours at that age?
Edited by JagLover on Saturday 27th May 18:51
Tuna said:
The problem with that graph is that the house price cycle lags the current government cycle by a significant period, and we have two significant financial crashes dumped in the middle. I'd challenge anyone to draw any serious conclusions about who's "better" and "worse" when you have so much disruption (and one off effects like taking house prices out of rpi).
How significant though. I could understand a few years - perhaps even a full term, but Labour held power for 13 years.The huge increases we saw in the late 1990s and early 2000s were all on Labour's watch. Everyone could see the market overheating, but they did little if anything to try and temper the market.
At the peak, house prices had risen by 255% under Labour - and despite the financial crisis, were still above the long term trend when Labour got booted.
Einion Yrth said:
Excepting that, even you admit it was idiocy; What other idiocy do they have up their sleeves?
Even me? I'm not sure what you think my politics are but at the moment I see complete incompetence and self serving idiocy from all of the 'main' parties.The complacency of the Conservatives thinking that Labour are idiots is perhaps more frustrating than the things Labour did under Blair and Brown - that's ancient history now.
Tuna said:
You completely missed my point. The conservatives are running a delicate balance between keeping 'business as usual' (see the amount of money put into things like the NHS) and reducing the cash flow. In some respects they're doing the bare minimum - and May's "big government" stance is part of that. But they'd like their core demographic to believe they're tightening their belts and committed to austerity (making the hard choices) - the "con" is that we're not actually living through anything like austerity, just a government with financial restraint. There's a difference.
As yet they haven't "saved" anything - they've reduced the rate at which they're loosing money. Given the profligacy of the previous government, I'm cynical about how much of that is a true improvement in efficiency and costs, and how much is just cutting out unjustifiable expenses. We still have a massive civil service, huge management overheads in most public sectors and projects like HS2 going full steam ahead. That's not austerity.
A good way of putting it.As yet they haven't "saved" anything - they've reduced the rate at which they're loosing money. Given the profligacy of the previous government, I'm cynical about how much of that is a true improvement in efficiency and costs, and how much is just cutting out unjustifiable expenses. We still have a massive civil service, huge management overheads in most public sectors and projects like HS2 going full steam ahead. That's not austerity.
We have austerity lite in public spending and they continue to look for new ways of raising revenue without raising headline rates. On the economy they make some populist gestures while trying to keep the UK a good place to do business.
Those who criticise them for doing so should perhaps bear in mind the change in the popular mood since the age of stagnation began.
Interesting article by Allister Heath in today's Telegraph (behind paywall) that business is the boy who cried wolf (my words not his). It was wrong to take sides so strongly over Brexit, wrong to exaggerate so massively the downsides of leaving the EU, wrong more recently to focus all its ire of the Tories, particularly over the issue of migration.
Now if they warn that Labour's plans will create a disaster they are unlikely to be believed and yet a 45p rate of tax kicking in at £80,000, 50p at £123,000, would be a far greater attack on the city than loss of passporting.
Edited by JagLover on Saturday 27th May 18:53
Tuna said:
Einion Yrth said:
Excepting that, even you admit it was idiocy; What other idiocy do they have up their sleeves?
Even me? I'm not sure what you think my politics are but at the moment I see complete incompetence and self serving idiocy from all of the 'main' parties.The complacency of the Conservatives thinking that Labour are idiots is perhaps more frustrating than the things Labour did under Blair and Brown - that's ancient history now.
Tuna earlier said:
you can't draw any conclusions about stewardship of house prices from a historic one-off piece of idiocy.
...draw conclusions? perhaps not, but it scarcely gives me any reason to trust them as custodians of the economy.
JagLover said:
I didn't say they became a burden on the state at 58 (though unlikely to be paying much if any tax if they have retired) I said they could expect to spend 30 years in retirement if they retired at 58 and at current life expectancies they can expect to live for 26 on average.
It does rather put tales of getting up half hour before they went to bed to lick the road clean with their tongue into perspective.
Do you think the recent young people of today, on average, will be retiring in their late 50s, or even drastically reducing their working hours at that age?
What % retire at 58 ( 7yrs before receiving state pension)? and how many have to work after 65?It does rather put tales of getting up half hour before they went to bed to lick the road clean with their tongue into perspective.
Do you think the recent young people of today, on average, will be retiring in their late 50s, or even drastically reducing their working hours at that age?
If they had enough to retire would they not be paying tax on a pension over £11k p.a.?
I don't know why you feel the need to get sarcy (lick roads etc) just because I am trying to engage you but heho you will grow up one day.
My parents couldn't help me in any way with finances..sorry I can't help every young person in the UK but after helping my own with their cars, houses and much much more my conscience is clear and I've got my hard earned money to spend before the kids put me in a state funded home and spend it on holidays.
alfie2244 said:
My parents couldn't help me in any way with finances..sorry I can't help every young person in the UK but after helping my own with their cars, houses and much much more my conscience is clear and I've got my hard earned money to spend before the kids put me in a state funded home and spend it on holidays.
Same here - but have you cracked the question of how to calibrate your rate of resource consumption ?gothatway said:
alfie2244 said:
My parents couldn't help me in any way with finances..sorry I can't help every young person in the UK but after helping my own with their cars, houses and much much more my conscience is clear and I've got my hard earned money to spend before the kids put me in a state funded home and spend it on holidays.
Same here - but have you cracked the question of how to calibrate your rate of resource consumption ?as an anklebiter you will need to goggle her
Edited by alfie2244 on Saturday 27th May 21:51
JagLover said:
Interesting article by Allister Heath in today's Telegraph (behind paywall) that business is the boy who cried wolf (my words not his). It was wrong to take sides so strongly over Brexit, wrong to exaggerate so massively the downsides of leaving the EU, wrong more recently to focus all its ire of the Tories, particularly over the issue of migration.
Now if they warn that Labour's plans will create a disaster they are unlikely to be believed and yet a 45p rate of tax kicking in at £80,000, 50p at £123,000, would be a far greater attack on the city than loss of passporting.
On the other hand maybe the brexiteers have said so often that business will prevail, we'll be fine regardless of anything happening because we're Britain, Britain is in such a strong negotiating position the rEU will bend over backwards etc that no one believes them when they suddenly say that it won't be fine if a Tory isn't in charge?Now if they warn that Labour's plans will create a disaster they are unlikely to be believed and yet a 45p rate of tax kicking in at £80,000, 50p at £123,000, would be a far greater attack on the city than loss of passporting.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 27th May 18:53
cookie118 said:
JagLover said:
Interesting article by Allister Heath in today's Telegraph (behind paywall) that business is the boy who cried wolf (my words not his). It was wrong to take sides so strongly over Brexit, wrong to exaggerate so massively the downsides of leaving the EU, wrong more recently to focus all its ire of the Tories, particularly over the issue of migration.
Now if they warn that Labour's plans will create a disaster they are unlikely to be believed and yet a 45p rate of tax kicking in at £80,000, 50p at £123,000, would be a far greater attack on the city than loss of passporting.
On the other hand maybe the brexiteers have said so often that business will prevail, we'll be fine regardless of anything happening because we're Britain, Britain is in such a strong negotiating position the rEU will bend over backwards etc that no one believes them when they suddenly say that it won't be fine if a Tory isn't in charge?Now if they warn that Labour's plans will create a disaster they are unlikely to be believed and yet a 45p rate of tax kicking in at £80,000, 50p at £123,000, would be a far greater attack on the city than loss of passporting.
Edited by JagLover on Saturday 27th May 18:53
When you say "regardless of anything" (anything?), "EU will bend over backwards" etc that's all your own prime tripe. Be careful, nobody might believe you.
turbobloke said:
cookie118 said:
JagLover said:
Interesting article by Allister Heath in today's Telegraph (behind paywall) that business is the boy who cried wolf (my words not his). It was wrong to take sides so strongly over Brexit, wrong to exaggerate so massively the downsides of leaving the EU, wrong more recently to focus all its ire of the Tories, particularly over the issue of migration.
Now if they warn that Labour's plans will create a disaster they are unlikely to be believed and yet a 45p rate of tax kicking in at £80,000, 50p at £123,000, would be a far greater attack on the city than loss of passporting.
On the other hand maybe the brexiteers have said so often that business will prevail, we'll be fine regardless of anything happening because we're Britain, Britain is in such a strong negotiating position the rEU will bend over backwards etc that no one believes them when they suddenly say that it won't be fine if a Tory isn't in charge?Now if they warn that Labour's plans will create a disaster they are unlikely to be believed and yet a 45p rate of tax kicking in at £80,000, 50p at £123,000, would be a far greater attack on the city than loss of passporting.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 27th May 18:53
When you say "regardless of anything" (anything?), "EU will bend over backwards" etc that's all your own prime tripe. Be careful, nobody might believe you.
"Yup, and the Germans will bend over backwards to ensure they still have full access to treasure island"
"The EU (esp Germany) will not cut its nose to spite its face, commerce will prevail"
"It appears that business common sense and pragmatism will prevail"
It's certainly the impression the brexiteers were and have been giving.
cookie118 said:
Is it though? A quick search throws up these from previous threads:
"Yup, and the Germans will bend over backwards to ensure they still have full access to treasure island"
"The EU (esp Germany) will not cut its nose to spite its face, commerce will prevail"
"It appears that business common sense and pragmatism will prevail"
It's certainly the impression the brexiteers were and have been giving.
Well three of them anyway, providing that those quotes are lifted from three individual source and not one person"Yup, and the Germans will bend over backwards to ensure they still have full access to treasure island"
"The EU (esp Germany) will not cut its nose to spite its face, commerce will prevail"
"It appears that business common sense and pragmatism will prevail"
It's certainly the impression the brexiteers were and have been giving.
The thing that sinks his theory is the assumption that Leave equalled Conservative, Remain equalled everyone else.
In reality the L Vs R argument clearly did not break down on party lines like that. However his belief says more about his own prejudices than anything else.
Even if you want to make those associations, then what about all the Remain arguments which have been subsequently proven to be a load of rubbish, or predictions of immediate dire events. Could we be forgiven for saying well we shouldn't believe that shower either?
Cue, not left yet. Meh. Took them three hours last time. Slipping.
In reality the L Vs R argument clearly did not break down on party lines like that. However his belief says more about his own prejudices than anything else.
Even if you want to make those associations, then what about all the Remain arguments which have been subsequently proven to be a load of rubbish, or predictions of immediate dire events. Could we be forgiven for saying well we shouldn't believe that shower either?
Cue, not left yet. Meh. Took them three hours last time. Slipping.
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