Trades V Pistonheads forum "Big shots"
Discussion
Have always found this funny
Quote a typical post .
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joshcowin said:
Bristol spark said:
imdeman87 said:
So he lied to you when he couldn't start on Friday?
OP I think you know the answer here, get your money back and find an honest tradesman. I personally wouldn't agree to a tradesman asking for over £1k+ as a deposit - if he runs a good business then there should be sufficient cash in his business to pay for supplies before embarking on a job. He should also have accounts in good standing with local builders' merchants so wouldn't need to get money from customers before starting.
Sounds like the business is in financial trouble.
I think your missing the point of a deposit.
Its not to pay for the materials straight away, its to cover the material cost incase the customer is a tt and does not pay the bill at the end.
These things work both ways.
I agree secures your work, I would imagine that's the only reason for the deposit.
Customers are often as unreliable as this trades person is being.
Well I personally would never deal with such tradesmen. If they want a large chunk of the money before even starting any of the work, then they can jog on. I'm clearly not the only one to have this mentality as per hman and Andehh's comments.
I pay after having had a meal in a restaurant, pay after my car's fixed at a local garage, pay after having a set of windows and doors installed, after a conservatory is built, after a new bathroom is fitted etc. - not before.
I'm not disputing the fact that there are dodgy customers out there - you can be taken advantage of in many business settings. That's just the inherent risk of having any business. If the customer doesn't pay, take the customer to court.
And besides, asking for a deposit does not guarantee that the customer will pay the remaining amount upon completion of the job.
If you do have to pay a deposit before the tradesmen lift a finger, at least make a £100 transaction on a credit card (should the business accept them).
Reply
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So "big shot" try getting a table in a good restaurant without been asked for a NONE refundable deposit ! With a car , you wont be getting it back unless you pay etc . So many "big mouths " spouting how big their balls are etc !
Its simple. Most good trades people will require a deposit and without one . The work will not start or a start date be promised. Boiler fitted ? fine, you pay for the boiler up front . Then the fitting etc on completion. Why should a HE stump up the lot? At the end of the day they dont know you as much as you dont know them (but should if they have been recommended) .At least if you get funny, they have not lost a grand or more etc . Some of you live in lala land. Also trades earning real money ! Seems so much snobbery . Want a nice kitchen painted ? Then be happy to pay about £300 a day for a good hand painter . You think it will be done for £125.00 then you live in a council house . And these painters are booked 6-9 months ahead with DEPOSITS paid.
The customer is not always right. And its silly to think if you are the customer you are etc. Good quality guys will never ever let themselves be treated badly by some "Company director with camp facial hair .
Do you pay when you have landed in plane ? do you heck ! Do Ferrari build you a car without a Deposit ? Do they heck !
Quote a typical post .
...................................................
joshcowin said:
Bristol spark said:
imdeman87 said:
So he lied to you when he couldn't start on Friday?
OP I think you know the answer here, get your money back and find an honest tradesman. I personally wouldn't agree to a tradesman asking for over £1k+ as a deposit - if he runs a good business then there should be sufficient cash in his business to pay for supplies before embarking on a job. He should also have accounts in good standing with local builders' merchants so wouldn't need to get money from customers before starting.
Sounds like the business is in financial trouble.
I think your missing the point of a deposit.
Its not to pay for the materials straight away, its to cover the material cost incase the customer is a tt and does not pay the bill at the end.
These things work both ways.
I agree secures your work, I would imagine that's the only reason for the deposit.
Customers are often as unreliable as this trades person is being.
Well I personally would never deal with such tradesmen. If they want a large chunk of the money before even starting any of the work, then they can jog on. I'm clearly not the only one to have this mentality as per hman and Andehh's comments.
I pay after having had a meal in a restaurant, pay after my car's fixed at a local garage, pay after having a set of windows and doors installed, after a conservatory is built, after a new bathroom is fitted etc. - not before.
I'm not disputing the fact that there are dodgy customers out there - you can be taken advantage of in many business settings. That's just the inherent risk of having any business. If the customer doesn't pay, take the customer to court.
And besides, asking for a deposit does not guarantee that the customer will pay the remaining amount upon completion of the job.
If you do have to pay a deposit before the tradesmen lift a finger, at least make a £100 transaction on a credit card (should the business accept them).
Reply
............................
So "big shot" try getting a table in a good restaurant without been asked for a NONE refundable deposit ! With a car , you wont be getting it back unless you pay etc . So many "big mouths " spouting how big their balls are etc !
Its simple. Most good trades people will require a deposit and without one . The work will not start or a start date be promised. Boiler fitted ? fine, you pay for the boiler up front . Then the fitting etc on completion. Why should a HE stump up the lot? At the end of the day they dont know you as much as you dont know them (but should if they have been recommended) .At least if you get funny, they have not lost a grand or more etc . Some of you live in lala land. Also trades earning real money ! Seems so much snobbery . Want a nice kitchen painted ? Then be happy to pay about £300 a day for a good hand painter . You think it will be done for £125.00 then you live in a council house . And these painters are booked 6-9 months ahead with DEPOSITS paid.
The customer is not always right. And its silly to think if you are the customer you are etc. Good quality guys will never ever let themselves be treated badly by some "Company director with camp facial hair .
Do you pay when you have landed in plane ? do you heck ! Do Ferrari build you a car without a Deposit ? Do they heck !
Sorry but that's b
ks.
People are happy to pay in advance for a flight or car in advance as they are pretty sure that the airline or manufacturer will still be there next week and if they fail to deliver they can sue them and get their money back. Most trades people simply aren't like that.
I would only ever pay for a deposit when the tradesperson is equally as exposed as I am because they have ordered something which would be hard to get rid of otherwise).
ks.People are happy to pay in advance for a flight or car in advance as they are pretty sure that the airline or manufacturer will still be there next week and if they fail to deliver they can sue them and get their money back. Most trades people simply aren't like that.
I would only ever pay for a deposit when the tradesperson is equally as exposed as I am because they have ordered something which would be hard to get rid of otherwise).
Then you must be dealing with rubbish trades . Last Job, Client gave card with £25k up front. Classy job and a good history together . Why should we have to piss about for money . We get hired for our skills and dont like been treated like 3rd world cash in hand bone heads . If a client gives a friend my number etc .I dont expect this "new" person to dictate to me how I am going to work etc . In the high end of the markets there is enough work for us to 'skip any hassle" . But it helps when we are good and have never once let anyone down .
brianashley said:
Then you must be dealing with rubbish trades . Last Job, Client gave card with £25k up front. Classy job and a good history together . Why should we have to piss about for money . We get hired for our skills and dont like been treated like 3rd world cash in hand bone heads . If a client gives a friend my number etc .I dont expect this "new" person to dictate to me how I am going to work etc . In the high end of the markets there is enough work for us to 'skip any hassle" . But it helps when we are good and have never once let anyone down .
Did you turn up when you said you would? Regardless how good you think you are and what mad skillz you believe yourself to possess there is no way in hell i would give any tradesman 25k before they have even turned up.
If you have a steady supply of people that are willing to pay up front then great, I don't blame you, work for them all day long.
That's not how I would be willing to deal with an unknown trade, it's not how most people are happy to pay and I suspect if your family members told you they had paid money up front to an unknown tradesperson, hoping they would come and do the job later you would probably suggest they have been foolish.
That's not how I would be willing to deal with an unknown trade, it's not how most people are happy to pay and I suspect if your family members told you they had paid money up front to an unknown tradesperson, hoping they would come and do the job later you would probably suggest they have been foolish.
R8Steve said:
Did you turn up when you said you would?
Regardless how good you think you are and what mad skillz you believe yourself to possess there is no way in hell i would give any tradesman 25k before they have even turned up.
Never ever let a client down. Its a great life, The Clients do all my 'advertising" for me. I do get the odd call warning me never ever to work for "their friends" As they know they will be Royal pains in da bum.Regardless how good you think you are and what mad skillz you believe yourself to possess there is no way in hell i would give any tradesman 25k before they have even turned up.
Honesty is vital.
Builder refuses to start unless I stump up a big deposit. 
Good fking luck there mate. As much as I appreciate a good trade there are a few guarantees...
1) He wont start on time, maybe a few hours late, maybe a few days later - it wont be at 8am on the Monday.
2) He will come & go as he pleases, he will start late, finish early, come with a mate, disappear for a few hours. Visit another project to finish up bits & pieces.
3) He will be lacklustre with communication once the job is started.
I accept all of the above, nature of the trade & job. In return however, I won't pay a penny until the job is well underway & materials are on site.
Never had anyone quibble, and I have never put up anything other then a ''disappointed the job is a week behind schedule, but fair enough'' kind response.
...but a deposit several weeks in advance of them starting? pfft, nope.
edit: for what it's worth, all my jobs have been sub £10k bathrooms, patios, drives, kitchens etc. Not £100k legally binding contract types.
Good fking luck there mate. As much as I appreciate a good trade there are a few guarantees...1) He wont start on time, maybe a few hours late, maybe a few days later - it wont be at 8am on the Monday.
2) He will come & go as he pleases, he will start late, finish early, come with a mate, disappear for a few hours. Visit another project to finish up bits & pieces.
3) He will be lacklustre with communication once the job is started.
I accept all of the above, nature of the trade & job. In return however, I won't pay a penny until the job is well underway & materials are on site.
Never had anyone quibble, and I have never put up anything other then a ''disappointed the job is a week behind schedule, but fair enough'' kind response.
...but a deposit several weeks in advance of them starting? pfft, nope.
edit: for what it's worth, all my jobs have been sub £10k bathrooms, patios, drives, kitchens etc. Not £100k legally binding contract types.
We've had some building work done on our house recently. No deposit, but staged payments. He got paid for each bit he completed. It worked well for us. I wouldn't have hired him if he wanted a big deposit payment and there's no way he would have waited until the end of the whole job for payment.
He's now doing some work for our neighbour. She paid him a big deposit up front and she's having problems with him turning up. I should point out that we didn't recommend him to our neighbour, she approached him outside our house one day.
He's now doing some work for our neighbour. She paid him a big deposit up front and she's having problems with him turning up. I should point out that we didn't recommend him to our neighbour, she approached him outside our house one day.
brianashley said:
Then you must be dealing with rubbish trades . Last Job, Client gave card with £25k up front. Classy job and a good history together . Why should we have to piss about for money . We get hired for our skills and dont like been treated like 3rd world cash in hand bone heads . If a client gives a friend my number etc .I dont expect this "new" person to dictate to me how I am going to work etc . In the high end of the markets there is enough work for us to 'skip any hassle" . But it helps when we are good and have never once let anyone down .
You sound great. You even said so yourself. No need for you to be complaining about people not wanting to pay large deposits to people they don't know on the internet then surely?
As you said perhaps those people, not wanting to pay deposits have had to deal with these "rubbish trades" you mention,
I'd happily pay Ferrari or an airline a deposit because I don't think they're going to go bust. Their financial situations are usually well known to customers. Trades are massively different and there are many many dodgy tradesmen around.
Your initial post would actually put me off hiring you, I hope you're not linking your business to your post history.
So you need a top end Kitchen fitter . he is busy and you expect him to book out 3 weeks with little control over the main builder etc ? No way. A deposit will be asked for. Then if there is any delays , the fitter has some money to cover the gap hoping he can get the next job to start early IF POSSIBLE . Why should he be out of pocket when the clients plans go adrift or they want to go on holiday etc . Or even worse the client father drops dead ......
El stovey said:
You sound great. You even said so yourself.
No need for you to be complaining about people not wanting to pay large deposits to people they don't know on the internet then surely?
As you said perhaps those people, not wanting to pay deposits have had to deal with these "rubbish trades" you mention,
I'd happily pay Ferrari or an airline a deposit because I don't think they're going to go bust. Their financial situations are usually well known to customers. Trades are massively different and there are many many dodgy tradesmen around.
Your initial post would actually put me off hiring you, I hope you're not linking your business to your post history.
Just sick to death of "Jonny bog bNo need for you to be complaining about people not wanting to pay large deposits to people they don't know on the internet then surely?
As you said perhaps those people, not wanting to pay deposits have had to deal with these "rubbish trades" you mention,
I'd happily pay Ferrari or an airline a deposit because I don't think they're going to go bust. Their financial situations are usually well known to customers. Trades are massively different and there are many many dodgy tradesmen around.
Your initial post would actually put me off hiring you, I hope you're not linking your business to your post history.
ks types" thinking they control "trades" and how crap they all are etc . when all they are is "customers" and the trade is a bone head. A good "Skilled craft person" does not have customers, we have "clients" .brianashley said:
So you need a top end Kitchen fitter . he is busy and you expect him to book out 3 weeks with little control over the main builder etc ? No way. A deposit will be asked for. Then if there is any delays , the fitter has some money to cover the gap hoping he can get the next job to start early IF POSSIBLE . Why should he be out of pocket when the clients plans go adrift or they want to go on holiday etc . Or even worse the client father drops dead ......
What happens if the kitchen fitter can't make the slot and gets called away to another job, for a bigger, regular client and starts a week late? Does he compensate his customer? No chance!brianashley said:
So you need a top end Kitchen fitter . he is busy and you expect him to book out 3 weeks with little control over the main builder etc ? No way. A deposit will be asked for. Then if there is any delays , the fitter has some money to cover the gap hoping he can get the next job to start early IF POSSIBLE . Why should he be out of pocket when the clients plans go adrift or they want to go on holiday etc . Or even worse the client father drops dead ......
Sounds like he needs to Google the words "cash" and "flow" if he's sailing that close to the wind.I'm really not having a go so excuse the following generalisation:
It would be interesting to see how the industry would change if "the trades" were all as good a businessmen as they are tradesmen. I.e. they could probably offer a better service because of it.
Muncher said:
What happens if the kitchen fitter can't make the slot and gets called away to another job, for a bigger, regular client and starts a week late? Does he compensate his customer? No chance!
Thats not a good guy. If he is going to run late.His first call is to the next client to notify them of any issues . If its not his fault (clients supplies units etc) then he has to work out if the next customer can wait or the customer he is working for is happy for him to come back later .As its not his fault . Thats why clever clients do not get into the "can we supply the materials " mess .As they become responsible and the "trades " hate it as when things go wrong the customer still expects them to sort it all out or have to wait a day etc (Or bloody weeks if its a bespoke German Kitchen !) who pays then ? brianashley said:
Or even worse the client father drops dead ......
And what happens if the tradesman's father drops dead (as is the apparent case in the thread you initially referred to) and in your case you've got my £25k upfront. Do i then delay all other building works losing all those massive deposits i've paid as that seems to be the only way to operate? Who refunds all of them? The tradesman that's fathers dropped dead? Somehow i VERY much doubt it.
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