2017 Election Result - a PH poll
Poll: 2017 Election Result - a PH poll
Total Members Polled: 395
Discussion
CaptainSlow said:
User33678888 said:
I'm constantly amazed at the people rooting for a hard brexit regardless of consequence.
Do you not realise quite how f
ked we'd be economically if we couldn't trade with 27 of our biggest partners for just a year?
Perhaps you're all too young to remember the 3 day week.
This country is populated by morons.
Why can't we trade? Are you one of the morons?Do you not realise quite how f
ked we'd be economically if we couldn't trade with 27 of our biggest partners for just a year? Perhaps you're all too young to remember the 3 day week.
This country is populated by morons.
Hackney said:
CaptainSlow said:
User33678888 said:
I'm constantly amazed at the people rooting for a hard brexit regardless of consequence.
Do you not realise quite how fked we'd be economically if we couldn't trade with 27 of our biggest partners for just a year?
Perhaps you're all too young to remember the 3 day week.
This country is populated by morons.
Why can't we trade? Are you one of the morons?Do you not realise quite how f
ked we'd be economically if we couldn't trade with 27 of our biggest partners for just a year? Perhaps you're all too young to remember the 3 day week.
This country is populated by morons.
Hackney said:
CaptainSlow said:
User33678888 said:
I'm constantly amazed at the people rooting for a hard brexit regardless of consequence.
Do you not realise quite how fked we'd be economically if we couldn't trade with 27 of our biggest partners for just a year?
Perhaps you're all too young to remember the 3 day week.
This country is populated by morons.
Why can't we trade? Are you one of the morons?Do you not realise quite how f
ked we'd be economically if we couldn't trade with 27 of our biggest partners for just a year? Perhaps you're all too young to remember the 3 day week.
This country is populated by morons.
I will vote Liberal Democrat, though I am not especially enamoured with Mr Farron, nor do I consider them to have any real depth of talent. The same could be said for the Conservatives or Labour at the present time though.
I am a former Tory voter who does not support Brexit. I recognise that staying in the EU through a second referendum on the details of Brexit is now very unlikely (this election snuffs out any chance of that) but I will vote Liberal Democrat at this election since they are now the only pro-EU party - Mr Corbyn is a Brexiter and Labour are unsupportable in myriad other ways. My seat is traditionally a three-way marginal, the current MP is a Conservative.
I believe there will not be a coalition since the Conservatives are likely to achieve an increased majority - probably significantly so. The election is very well timed. We have not left the EU yet so the economic damage I am certain that leaving will cause has not yet been felt. A great many people believe it never will. Maybe they are right. I believe they are wrong, but any change of heart by the public after facing the realities will be too late now. I believe this election has extinguished any chance of a second referendum no matter how badly the negotiations go, since the modern Conservative party is dominated by anti European Union zealots and they want out whatever the cost.
It remains to be seen what the long term consequences for the Conservative party of a failure to reach a satisfactory exit deal which causes significant economic damage would be. I suspect dire. It is easy to forget that Tony Blair was once very widely supported and well regarded. He achieved landslide election victories. Now he is seen as a charlatan. The same could easily happen to the Brexiters. I cannot imagine voting Conservative again and it could be that by the next General election enough voters are disillusioned by the realities of Brexit that the Conservatives see their support collapse. Leaving the EU is a vastly complex and difficult thing to do, yet so many seem to think it is easy and simple.
I am a former Tory voter who does not support Brexit. I recognise that staying in the EU through a second referendum on the details of Brexit is now very unlikely (this election snuffs out any chance of that) but I will vote Liberal Democrat at this election since they are now the only pro-EU party - Mr Corbyn is a Brexiter and Labour are unsupportable in myriad other ways. My seat is traditionally a three-way marginal, the current MP is a Conservative.
I believe there will not be a coalition since the Conservatives are likely to achieve an increased majority - probably significantly so. The election is very well timed. We have not left the EU yet so the economic damage I am certain that leaving will cause has not yet been felt. A great many people believe it never will. Maybe they are right. I believe they are wrong, but any change of heart by the public after facing the realities will be too late now. I believe this election has extinguished any chance of a second referendum no matter how badly the negotiations go, since the modern Conservative party is dominated by anti European Union zealots and they want out whatever the cost.
It remains to be seen what the long term consequences for the Conservative party of a failure to reach a satisfactory exit deal which causes significant economic damage would be. I suspect dire. It is easy to forget that Tony Blair was once very widely supported and well regarded. He achieved landslide election victories. Now he is seen as a charlatan. The same could easily happen to the Brexiters. I cannot imagine voting Conservative again and it could be that by the next General election enough voters are disillusioned by the realities of Brexit that the Conservatives see their support collapse. Leaving the EU is a vastly complex and difficult thing to do, yet so many seem to think it is easy and simple.
dbdb said:
... I cannot imagine voting Conservative again and it could be that by the next General election enough voters are disillusioned by the realities of Brexit that the Conservatives see their support collapse. Leaving the EU is a vastly complex and difficult thing to do, yet so many seem to think it is easy and simple.
What would Conservative policy have had to be on Brexit to keep you as a voter?
dbdb said:
I will vote Liberal Democrat, though I am not especially enamoured with Mr Farron, nor do I consider them to have any real depth of talent. The same could be said for the Conservatives or Labour at the present time though.
I am a former Tory voter who does not support Brexit. I recognise that staying in the EU through a second referendum on the details of Brexit is now very unlikely (this election snuffs out any chance of that) but I will vote Liberal Democrat at this election since they are now the only pro-EU party - Mr Corbyn is a Brexiter and Labour are unsupportable in myriad other ways. My seat is traditionally a three-way marginal, the current MP is a Conservative.
I believe there will not be a coalition since the Conservatives are likely to achieve an increased majority - probably significantly so. The election is very well timed. We have not left the EU yet so the economic damage I am certain that leaving will cause has not yet been felt. A great many people believe it never will. Maybe they are right. I believe they are wrong, but any change of heart by the public after facing the realities will be too late now. I believe this election has extinguished any chance of a second referendum no matter how badly the negotiations go, since the modern Conservative party is dominated by anti European Union zealots and they want out whatever the cost.
It remains to be seen what the long term consequences for the Conservative party of a failure to reach a satisfactory exit deal which causes significant economic damage would be. I suspect dire. It is easy to forget that Tony Blair was once very widely supported and well regarded. He achieved landslide election victories. Now he is seen as a charlatan. The same could easily happen to the Brexiters. I cannot imagine voting Conservative again and it could be that by the next General election enough voters are disillusioned by the realities of Brexit that the Conservatives see their support collapse. Leaving the EU is a vastly complex and difficult thing to do, yet so many seem to think it is easy and simple.
I can make no sense of this. The Tory policy was remain but offered the people a chance to vote on the matter. What have they done wrong?I am a former Tory voter who does not support Brexit. I recognise that staying in the EU through a second referendum on the details of Brexit is now very unlikely (this election snuffs out any chance of that) but I will vote Liberal Democrat at this election since they are now the only pro-EU party - Mr Corbyn is a Brexiter and Labour are unsupportable in myriad other ways. My seat is traditionally a three-way marginal, the current MP is a Conservative.
I believe there will not be a coalition since the Conservatives are likely to achieve an increased majority - probably significantly so. The election is very well timed. We have not left the EU yet so the economic damage I am certain that leaving will cause has not yet been felt. A great many people believe it never will. Maybe they are right. I believe they are wrong, but any change of heart by the public after facing the realities will be too late now. I believe this election has extinguished any chance of a second referendum no matter how badly the negotiations go, since the modern Conservative party is dominated by anti European Union zealots and they want out whatever the cost.
It remains to be seen what the long term consequences for the Conservative party of a failure to reach a satisfactory exit deal which causes significant economic damage would be. I suspect dire. It is easy to forget that Tony Blair was once very widely supported and well regarded. He achieved landslide election victories. Now he is seen as a charlatan. The same could easily happen to the Brexiters. I cannot imagine voting Conservative again and it could be that by the next General election enough voters are disillusioned by the realities of Brexit that the Conservatives see their support collapse. Leaving the EU is a vastly complex and difficult thing to do, yet so many seem to think it is easy and simple.
grantone said:
dbdb said:
... I cannot imagine voting Conservative again and it could be that by the next General election enough voters are disillusioned by the realities of Brexit that the Conservatives see their support collapse. Leaving the EU is a vastly complex and difficult thing to do, yet so many seem to think it is easy and simple.
What would Conservative policy have had to be on Brexit to keep you as a voter?The problem for me flows from my perception that the Conservatives are basing their negotiating position and wish-list in anti-EU ideology, rather than pragmatism. This may be a simple negotiating tactic - or it may not. The 'team' is heavily dominated by very hard line Eurosceptic thinking - which is why it is so popular on PH and why UKIP is now dead - and is very unbalanced. I believe they will pursue a political course not a practical and pragmatic one. I am not a political idealist and such idealism sits very uneasily with me. I am practical. I have no great love for the EU, but I believe being in is better for business. Indeed, its economic importance seems to be dismissed by many on the Eurosceptic Tory hard-right; it seems to me recklessly so. The Brexit team also seem to be entirely out of their depth and to have seriously underestimated the scale of the task. To compound this, I do not believe the current Government has the honour to put their deal to the people in a second referendum so that they may decide if they still want to leave the EU when they have seen what leaving means. I understand why a referendum is not offered now - that would be foolish indeed - but I do not believe they would ever offer one, no matter how disadvantaged the deal they negotiate may leave the UK.
Of course, several things could see me return to the party as a voter. One is that the negotiation is actually a success and that the deal they deliver is something I can support. I doubt this since it would be a very soft Brexit, but I am open minded enough to recognise that it is possible.
The other is that having negotiated the deal they have the self confidence and honour to offer a second referendum on its details. If that returns another vote to leave, I will almost certainly be unhappy, but I will accept it in a way I struggle to do now - where very few people really knew what they were voting for. Brexit is so complicated and unbiased facts so difficult to obtain that anyone who claims to have truly understood it in June last year, plainly didn't understand it!
dbdb said:
I will vote Liberal Democrat, though I am not especially enamoured with Mr Farron, nor do I consider them to have any real depth of talent. The same could be said for the Conservatives or Labour at the present time though.
I am a former Tory voter who does not support Brexit. I recognise that staying in the EU through a second referendum on the details of Brexit is now very unlikely (this election snuffs out any chance of that) but I will vote Liberal Democrat at this election since they are now the only pro-EU party - Mr Corbyn is a Brexiter and Labour are unsupportable in myriad other ways. My seat is traditionally a three-way marginal, the current MP is a Conservative.
I believe there will not be a coalition since the Conservatives are likely to achieve an increased majority - probably significantly so. The election is very well timed. We have not left the EU yet so the economic damage I am certain that leaving will cause has not yet been felt. A great many people believe it never will. Maybe they are right. I believe they are wrong, but any change of heart by the public after facing the realities will be too late now. I believe this election has extinguished any chance of a second referendum no matter how badly the negotiations go, since the modern Conservative party is dominated by anti European Union zealots and they want out whatever the cost.
It remains to be seen what the long term consequences for the Conservative party of a failure to reach a satisfactory exit deal which causes significant economic damage would be. I suspect dire. It is easy to forget that Tony Blair was once very widely supported and well regarded. He achieved landslide election victories. Now he is seen as a charlatan. The same could easily happen to the Brexiters. I cannot imagine voting Conservative again and it could be that by the next General election enough voters are disillusioned by the realities of Brexit that the Conservatives see their support collapse. Leaving the EU is a vastly complex and difficult thing to do, yet so many seem to think it is easy and simple.
This aligns closely with my views.I am a former Tory voter who does not support Brexit. I recognise that staying in the EU through a second referendum on the details of Brexit is now very unlikely (this election snuffs out any chance of that) but I will vote Liberal Democrat at this election since they are now the only pro-EU party - Mr Corbyn is a Brexiter and Labour are unsupportable in myriad other ways. My seat is traditionally a three-way marginal, the current MP is a Conservative.
I believe there will not be a coalition since the Conservatives are likely to achieve an increased majority - probably significantly so. The election is very well timed. We have not left the EU yet so the economic damage I am certain that leaving will cause has not yet been felt. A great many people believe it never will. Maybe they are right. I believe they are wrong, but any change of heart by the public after facing the realities will be too late now. I believe this election has extinguished any chance of a second referendum no matter how badly the negotiations go, since the modern Conservative party is dominated by anti European Union zealots and they want out whatever the cost.
It remains to be seen what the long term consequences for the Conservative party of a failure to reach a satisfactory exit deal which causes significant economic damage would be. I suspect dire. It is easy to forget that Tony Blair was once very widely supported and well regarded. He achieved landslide election victories. Now he is seen as a charlatan. The same could easily happen to the Brexiters. I cannot imagine voting Conservative again and it could be that by the next General election enough voters are disillusioned by the realities of Brexit that the Conservatives see their support collapse. Leaving the EU is a vastly complex and difficult thing to do, yet so many seem to think it is easy and simple.
One of the motivations for the poll was to see how many others feel this way. I was never expecting anything other than a mass of Tory / UKIP support here (though interesting to see how UKIP support here seems to have migrated to Tory for this vote), but was wondering to see if some migration to a lib dem protest vote might occur and see the LDs bust through 20%. At times in the poll it did exceed 20% but is settling around 15%.
The collapse is any labour support is stark.
I also agree this will cement mays Brexit position until it's all too late and any detrimental outcomes from the deal are baked in and hard to escape from - it will all be too late. I also think you are right to link this to Blairs fall from grace. As the impacts of Brexit emerge, the tories will be judged very harshly, I almost felt this vote was partly about creating space between 2019 (Brexit) and 2022 (election) - though whether that will make much difference to how long a trade deal will take (probably ages), who knows.
Efbe said:
I vote almost entirely on what the parties will do for the NHS and Education. I bear no allegiance to any party.
I care not about taxation, or defense, or the policies aimed for the illiterate are retarded, i.e. immigration, religion, benefits etc
So for this time I am split between Labour and Lib Dems.
I would vote Lib Dem, but I fear Time Farron's stance on no coalitions (i.e. with labout) puts me off.
So in summary, you like "shiny things" but have no interest in whether (or by who) they can be paid for)?I care not about taxation, or defense, or the policies aimed for the illiterate are retarded, i.e. immigration, religion, benefits etc
So for this time I am split between Labour and Lib Dems.
I would vote Lib Dem, but I fear Time Farron's stance on no coalitions (i.e. with labout) puts me off.
You sound like the ideal Labour voter!!
Hackney said:
CaptainSlow said:
User33678888 said:
I'm constantly amazed at the people rooting for a hard brexit regardless of consequence.
Do you not realise quite how fked we'd be economically if we couldn't trade with 27 of our biggest partners for just a year?
Perhaps you're all too young to remember the 3 day week.
This country is populated by morons.
Why can't we trade? Are you one of the morons?Do you not realise quite how f
ked we'd be economically if we couldn't trade with 27 of our biggest partners for just a year? Perhaps you're all too young to remember the 3 day week.
This country is populated by morons.
remain narrative ...
As I said in the other thread people keep trying to make this pro or anti Brexit but what we are actually electing is the team to negotiate the best possible exit and new deal going forward.
Is that May with a strong majority, so that she ignore fringe extremists, or is it some sort of a coalition. That is all the consideration there is in regards to Brexit at least.
Charles Moore in today's Spectator thinks the main impact of a stronger majority is that May can afford to ignore the more extreme Tory Eurosceptics, Hence why it is a gross simplification to think this can be reduced down to a clear Brexit option via a General Election.
Is that May with a strong majority, so that she ignore fringe extremists, or is it some sort of a coalition. That is all the consideration there is in regards to Brexit at least.
Charles Moore in today's Spectator thinks the main impact of a stronger majority is that May can afford to ignore the more extreme Tory Eurosceptics, Hence why it is a gross simplification to think this can be reduced down to a clear Brexit option via a General Election.
JagLover said:
As I said in the other thread people keep trying to make this pro or anti Brexit but what we are actually electing is the team to negotiate the best possible exit and new deal going forward.
Is that May with a strong majority, so that she ignore fringe extremists, or is it some sort of a coalition. That is all the consideration there is in regards to Brexit at least.
Charles Moore in today's Spectator thinks the main impact of a stronger majority is that May can afford to ignore the more extreme Tory Eurosceptics, Hence why it is a gross simplification to think this can be reduced down to a clear Brexit option via a General Election.
I think there are several valid views on what might happen here, I'm no sure anyone can be certain.Is that May with a strong majority, so that she ignore fringe extremists, or is it some sort of a coalition. That is all the consideration there is in regards to Brexit at least.
Charles Moore in today's Spectator thinks the main impact of a stronger majority is that May can afford to ignore the more extreme Tory Eurosceptics, Hence why it is a gross simplification to think this can be reduced down to a clear Brexit option via a General Election.
You could say Tory majority will allow May to have a strong hand and go for trade deals, SM access in all but name and silence the eurosceptics.
You could also say a large Tory majority will embolden the eurosceptics to shout even louder "there is your mandate for hard Brexit!!"
A resurgence of the only EU friendly party - so far the lib dems - might send a message that hard Brexit is deeply unpopular with at least a fair chunk of the population.
I'm quite uncomfortable that the Tory Brexit objectives remain rather vague. Out of the SM but with a good trade deal - but which will come second to immigration control. That is a possible recipe for a pretty hard exit. Does she mean it?
You'll never convince me that leaving the EU is the right thing to do, but the decision has been made, there's no real credible way to stop it and I think Theresa May is doing a decent job as PM in difficult circumstances.
I read an article recently that suggested that this snap election could be her way of vastly outnumbering the "hard brexit" backbenchers who, at the moment, she still needs the support of to get things done with the current slim majority.
It could actually be a way of delivering a softer brexit than predicted. She was a remainer herself, remember.
I've voted Tory, Labour, Lib Dem and independent before based on who I thought would be best for the country, so I'm no staunch conservative. But I will vote for Mrs May this time around.
Not that I'd say that on Facebook.
"I agree with the Conservatives in that raping people is bad and those that do it should be punished"
"SO YOU LOVE MURDERING PUPPIES AND ORPHANS!!!! YOU fkING TORY!!!!!"
I read an article recently that suggested that this snap election could be her way of vastly outnumbering the "hard brexit" backbenchers who, at the moment, she still needs the support of to get things done with the current slim majority.
It could actually be a way of delivering a softer brexit than predicted. She was a remainer herself, remember.
I've voted Tory, Labour, Lib Dem and independent before based on who I thought would be best for the country, so I'm no staunch conservative. But I will vote for Mrs May this time around.
Not that I'd say that on Facebook.
"I agree with the Conservatives in that raping people is bad and those that do it should be punished"
"SO YOU LOVE MURDERING PUPPIES AND ORPHANS!!!! YOU f
kING TORY!!!!!"crofty1984 said:
You'll never convince me that leaving the EU is the right thing to do, but the decision has been made, there's no real credible way to stop it and I think Theresa May is doing a decent job as PM in difficult circumstances.
I read an article recently that suggested that this snap election could be her way of vastly outnumbering the "hard brexit" backbenchers who, at the moment, she still needs the support of to get things done with the current slim majority.
It could actually be a way of delivering a softer brexit than predicted. She was a remainer herself, remember.
I've voted Tory, Labour, Lib Dem and independent before based on who I thought would be best for the country, so I'm no staunch conservative. But I will vote for Mrs May this time around.
Not that I'd say that on Facebook.
"I agree with the Conservatives in that raping people is bad and those that do it should be punished"
"SO YOU LOVE MURDERING PUPPIES AND ORPHANS!!!! YOU fkING TORY!!!!!"
It's refreshing to read such pragmatism from a leave voter, I'd guess most sensible people will think and act in the same way.I read an article recently that suggested that this snap election could be her way of vastly outnumbering the "hard brexit" backbenchers who, at the moment, she still needs the support of to get things done with the current slim majority.
It could actually be a way of delivering a softer brexit than predicted. She was a remainer herself, remember.
I've voted Tory, Labour, Lib Dem and independent before based on who I thought would be best for the country, so I'm no staunch conservative. But I will vote for Mrs May this time around.
Not that I'd say that on Facebook.
"I agree with the Conservatives in that raping people is bad and those that do it should be punished"
"SO YOU LOVE MURDERING PUPPIES AND ORPHANS!!!! YOU f
kING TORY!!!!!"The poll here seems to reflect what current polls predict although it's probably a more extreme illustration of reality.
The Facebook example reflects nicely some similar rhetoric from the usual suspects on PH and is always so amusing to read
///ajd said:
Playing with the seat calculator, it appears that even if the LDs get 50+ or even more seats, Labour will lose so many that a coalition like 2010 seem unlikely.
The LibDems won't get anymore seats at all if the Tory vote is in line with the national swing. On the current polling there is a swing away from the LibDems to Tory (the LibDem vote has gone up but the Tory vote up more - in many places hoovering up a lot of UKIP votes).So, the LibDems will have to either do a lot better nationally than the polls are currently implying or do exceptionally well in the marginals compared to the national swing.
The latter obviously looks the better bet for them and I can certainly see them picking up some seats or coming close in areas like London. I can't see them getting close to 50 - 20 would be an excellent result for them but they may pick up none at all.
Basically, the LibDems may well pick up some Remain votes but if for every vote they pick up the Tories pick up one from Labour or UKIP then they won't actually win any more seats.
confused_buyer said:
///ajd said:
Playing with the seat calculator, it appears that even if the LDs get 50+ or even more seats, Labour will lose so many that a coalition like 2010 seem unlikely.
The LibDems won't get anymore seats at all if the Tory vote is in line with the national swing. On the current polling there is a swing away from the LibDems to Tory (the LibDem vote has gone up but the Tory vote up more - in many places hoovering up a lot of UKIP votes).So, the LibDems will have to either do a lot better nationally than the polls are currently implying or do exceptionally well in the marginals compared to the national swing.
The latter obviously looks the better bet for them and I can certainly see them picking up some seats or coming close in areas like London. I can't see them getting close to 50 - 20 would be an excellent result for them but they may pick up none at all.
Basically, the LibDems may well pick up some Remain votes but if for every vote they pick up the Tories pick up one from Labour or UKIP then they won't actually win any more seats.
It will be interesting to see if the LibDems can coral an effective "anti-hard brexit" vote - they'll be held back by Farrons personality unfortunately.
sidicks said:
Efbe said:
I vote almost entirely on what the parties will do for the NHS and Education. I bear no allegiance to any party.
I care not about taxation, or defense, or the policies aimed for the illiterate are retarded, i.e. immigration, religion, benefits etc
So in summary, you like "shiny things" but have no interest in whether (or by who) they can be paid for)?I care not about taxation, or defense, or the policies aimed for the illiterate are retarded, i.e. immigration, religion, benefits etc
You sound like the ideal Labour voter!!
And I've read JawKnee.
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