Brexit related recession?
Discussion
///ajd said:
gruffalo said:
don'tbesilly said:
///ajd said:
gruffalo said:
They have not announced tax rises after the election, the have however said that they need options so they can react to any changes in the economy and so don't want to be hamstrung by a manifesto pledge that would be irresponsible in light of the changes that are afoot in regards to the UK.
It is reasonable to link these events - brexit = likely tax rises. May is somewhat more intelligent than the previous incumbent at No 10 who made no contingency for a vote to leave, and simply got on Shank's pony!
There is rarely any gain without some pain, so I don't see some sensible forward planning by the Government as anything other than prudent, hopefully the £ will continue to show gains and future tax rises will be minimum if any at all.
Sensible to allow yourself options.
You were aware that many Leave voters were expecting some pain from their vote to Leave?
Not every voter (Leave) was expecting utopia, but you knew this of course.
sidicks said:
zygalski said:
Labour government inherited Tory issues. It's all about the lag, you see?
You mean like when the Labour government, led by Blair, inherited an economy that was well-balanced and growing, and managed to massively increase debt despite record growth and record tax receipts? 13 years they had...
Edited by zygalski on Sunday 23 April 09:55
PH XKR said:
sidicks said:
nadger said:
Of course, Britain hasn't benefitted from being part of the EU at all either!
At a cost.Bombadier - Derby, lost contract after Germans secretly funded Simens to run a bid at a loss
Rover - Needed govt intervention for support, illegal under EU rules, Rover bust. BMW, Porsche, VAG, PSA all supported by illegal loans. French never intended to pay loans back.
Britain has applied the EU rules the most rigorously over the years and it has been to our loss.
sidicks said:
zygalski said:
Politicians don't tend to rule out tax rises if they've got tax cuts planned. Just out of interest, when was the last time the Tories cut the overall UK tax take?
Or, more relevantly, when did the outgoing Labour government leave the incoming Conservative government with the means to cut the overall tax take...The current direction can't be laid at the feet of the post 2008 crash/recovery - which was going on a reasonable trajectory despite the on-going challenge of attacking the deficit/debt.
That is all out of the window now, and it can all be directly linked to brexit. Can you bring yourself to admit it? I'm guessing not!
sidicks said:
zygalski said:
Labour government inherited Tory issues. It's all about the lag, you see?
You mean like when the Labour government, led by Blair, inherited an economy that was well-balanced and growing, and managed to massively increase debt despite record growth and record tax receipts? 13 years they had...Likes Fast Cars said:
sidicks said:
zygalski said:
Labour government inherited Tory issues. It's all about the lag, you see?
You mean like when the Labour government, led by Blair, inherited an economy that was well-balanced and growing, and managed to massively increase debt despite record growth and record tax receipts? 13 years they had...Let's see how Brexit pans out, now that May has played an obvious get out of jail free card so she can blame the mess on the electorate....
zygalski said:
You read that link in 60 seconds. Congrats!
Proof is above. ^^
That link has been discussed on numerous occasions, and comes from the tProof is above. ^^
t that is Richard Murphy. It entirely ignore the economic conditions, it ignores other forms of borrowing and it ignores the lag between a government taking office and being able to significantly shift spending and income.As explained above, if you think that the debt incurred by the Coalition in 2010-2015 (for example) is anything but entirely due to the structural deficit inherited from the Labour government, you are entirely deluded.
No doubt you will also claim that the Tories implemented 'austerity' too...
Would there be a recession if the EU collapses?
From an article published in the Telegraph online at 0944hrs today:
Polls have opened in the first round of France’s most unpredictable and high-stakes presidential election in decades, with far-Right leader Marine Le Pen and the maverick centrist Emmanuel Macron leading the field. A Le Pen victory could lead to the collapse of the European Union.
Interesting times.
From an article published in the Telegraph online at 0944hrs today:
Polls have opened in the first round of France’s most unpredictable and high-stakes presidential election in decades, with far-Right leader Marine Le Pen and the maverick centrist Emmanuel Macron leading the field. A Le Pen victory could lead to the collapse of the European Union.
Interesting times.
sidicks said:
zygalski said:
You read that link in 60 seconds. Congrats!
Proof is above. ^^
That link has been discussed on numerous occasions, and comes from the tProof is above. ^^
t that is Richard Murphy. It entirely ignore the economic conditions, it ignores other forms of borrowing and it ignores the lag between a government taking office and being able to significantly shift spending and income.As explained above, if you think that the debt incurred by the Coalition in 2010-2015 (for example) is anything but entirely due to the structural deficit inherited from the Labour government, you are entirely deluded.
No doubt you will also claim that the Tories implemented 'austerity' too...
zygalski said:
Aah, so now lag is important. At least you're not a hypocrite.
When did i say the lag wasn't important? In fact I said the exact opposite - the ability of the Tories to cut tax is linked to the economy they inherited from the previous government.You're not very good at this economics malarky are you?!
zygalski said:
I wouldn't be quite so smug if I were you.
Let's see how Brexit pans out, now that May has played an obvious get out of jail free card so she can blame the mess on the electorate....
As well she should. It's the electorate that have demanded Brexit so whatever that means falls squarely at the feet of those who voted for it, positive or negative may I add. But that's not what she's doing, she's taking advantage of the fact that Corbyn has an incredibly low approval rating to secure a larger majority such that a small backbench revolt cannot upset the apple cart.Let's see how Brexit pans out, now that May has played an obvious get out of jail free card so she can blame the mess on the electorate....
Likes Fast Cars said:
PH XKR said:
sidicks said:
nadger said:
Of course, Britain hasn't benefitted from being part of the EU at all either!
At a cost.Bombadier - Derby, lost contract after Germans secretly funded Simens to run a bid at a loss
Rover - Needed govt intervention for support, illegal under EU rules, Rover bust. BMW, Porsche, VAG, PSA all supported by illegal loans. French never intended to pay loans back.
Britain has applied the EU rules the most rigorously over the years and it has been to our loss.
sidicks said:
zygalski said:
Aah, so now lag is important. At least you're not a hypocrite.
When did i say the lag wasn't important? In fact I said the exact opposite - the ability of the Tories to cut tax is linked to the economy they inherited from the previous government.You're not very good at this economics malarky are you?!
If the economy was so fragile when Labour left office, and was in such a terrible state as you say, how did it recover so quickly a few years later? Surely the lag from Labour would have meant a long-standing recession & poor performance from the years following 2008?
Perhaps Labour left the economy in a rather better state that those like you wish to make others believe, or perhaps, as I say, you use the economic lag argument only when it serves your needs....
zygalski said:
So answer me this.
If the economy was so fragile when Labour left office, and was in such a terrible state as you say, how did it recover so quickly a few years later? Surely the lag from Labour would have meant a long-standing recession & poor performance from the years following 2008?
Perhaps Labour left the economy in a rather better state that those like you wish to make others believe, or perhaps, as I say, you use the economic lag argument only when it serves your needs....
Yes, you said that, but it isn't true the first time you said it, and neither is it true now.If the economy was so fragile when Labour left office, and was in such a terrible state as you say, how did it recover so quickly a few years later? Surely the lag from Labour would have meant a long-standing recession & poor performance from the years following 2008?
Perhaps Labour left the economy in a rather better state that those like you wish to make others believe, or perhaps, as I say, you use the economic lag argument only when it serves your needs....
How much was the structural deficit in 2009-2010?
You obviously don't understand the things that had to be implemented to support the economy at the time - low interest rates, QE, in addition to the economic boost of £150bn deficit spending (which explains the large amount of recent borrowing under the Coalition / Tory governments, for which they had no choice).
Suggest you stop now before you make yourself look even more stupid!
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 23 April 10:26
PH XKR said:
Stop being a "remainer" for a second. I love Europe, I despise the EU. The EU is nothing more than a cabal for corrupt politicians, protectionism and hidden finances. One can love Europe but not believe in the EU, just like you can have a gay friend even if you personally don't want to play hide the sausage.
As for milking, it isn't really my thing but lets face it, the EU has done exactly that to the UK for decades.
I can only agree with your post..As for milking, it isn't really my thing but lets face it, the EU has done exactly that to the UK for decades.
PH XKR said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
PH XKR said:
sidicks said:
nadger said:
Of course, Britain hasn't benefitted from being part of the EU at all either!
At a cost.Bombadier - Derby, lost contract after Germans secretly funded Simens to run a bid at a loss
Rover - Needed govt intervention for support, illegal under EU rules, Rover bust. BMW, Porsche, VAG, PSA all supported by illegal loans. French never intended to pay loans back.
Britain has applied the EU rules the most rigorously over the years and it has been to our loss.
Again-any sources or evidence to back up the assertion above or the assertion about Siemens and the automakers?
sidicks said:
zygalski said:
So answer me this.
If the economy was so fragile when Labour left office, and was in such a terrible state as you say, how did it recover so quickly a few years later? Surely the lag from Labour would have meant a long-standing recession & poor performance from the years following 2008?
Perhaps Labour left the economy in a rather better state that those like you wish to make others believe, or perhaps, as I say, you use the economic lag argument only when it serves your needs....
Yes, you said that, but it isn't true the first time you said it, and neither is it true now.If the economy was so fragile when Labour left office, and was in such a terrible state as you say, how did it recover so quickly a few years later? Surely the lag from Labour would have meant a long-standing recession & poor performance from the years following 2008?
Perhaps Labour left the economy in a rather better state that those like you wish to make others believe, or perhaps, as I say, you use the economic lag argument only when it serves your needs....
How much was the structural deficit in 2009-2010?
You obviously don't understand the things that had to be implemented to support the economy at the time - low interest rates, QE, in addition to the economic boost of £150bn deficit spending (which explains the large amount of recent borrowing under the Coalition / Tory governments, for which they had no choice).
Suggest you stop now before you make yourself look even more stupid!
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 23 April 10:26
If the economy was left in a shambles when Labour left office, how come the economy had +ve economic growth between 2010 & 2012? Where was the lag from all those terrible Labour years & the mess they apparently left in 2010?
I suggest the economy was in better shape when Labour left office than the likes of you suggested.
zygalski said:
sidicks said:
zygalski said:
So answer me this.
If the economy was so fragile when Labour left office, and was in such a terrible state as you say, how did it recover so quickly a few years later? Surely the lag from Labour would have meant a long-standing recession & poor performance from the years following 2008?
Perhaps Labour left the economy in a rather better state that those like you wish to make others believe, or perhaps, as I say, you use the economic lag argument only when it serves your needs....
Yes, you said that, but it isn't true the first time you said it, and neither is it true now.If the economy was so fragile when Labour left office, and was in such a terrible state as you say, how did it recover so quickly a few years later? Surely the lag from Labour would have meant a long-standing recession & poor performance from the years following 2008?
Perhaps Labour left the economy in a rather better state that those like you wish to make others believe, or perhaps, as I say, you use the economic lag argument only when it serves your needs....
How much was the structural deficit in 2009-2010?
You obviously don't understand the things that had to be implemented to support the economy at the time - low interest rates, QE, in addition to the economic boost of £150bn deficit spending (which explains the large amount of recent borrowing under the Coalition / Tory governments, for which they had no choice).
Suggest you stop now before you make yourself look even more stupid!
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 23 April 10:26
If the economy was left in a shambles when Labour left office, how come the economy had +ve economic growth between 2010 & 2012? Where was the lag from all those terrible Labour years & the mess they apparently left in 2010?
I suggest the economy was in better shape when Labour left office than the likes of you suggested.
You're still trying to claim that the £150bn borrowing incurred by the Coalition as a result of the structural deficit is NOT due to Labour? As I said previously, stop making yourself look stupid!
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