Fox Hunting

[Digby]

A57 HSV said:

The majority of people in UK don't like them? Are you refereeing to this poll?:

No, but thanks for that. I was basing it on numerous things you can read and hear about and the fact that almost anyone you stop and ask would suggest they are murdering tts. Under the rug, I assume?

A57 HSV said:

So 1,971 people of age 15+ asked a series of questions which just conveniently included questions about Dog fighting and Badger baiting. Err okay!

I do know someone who can make uber-sized rugs if you are interested?

[Digby]

kingston12 said:

Digby said:

Quote me. Happy to be corrected.

Got accused of saying "lycra clad warriors" by angry cyclists, too.

Wow, you pick your battles, don't you? The PH cycle collective and now this lot. Best of luck!

Look at the desperation, though!

One child has even run off crying to teacher, now!

I could do with seeing said teacher, however, seeing as I am apparently uneducated (this has to be a class thing?!!)

[Digby]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

You have consistently inferred a passionate dislike and version of name calling of the hunters- not I .

s and tossers, sure. Not toffs. That's far too lame (you mention it a few times, though)

I wouldn't be able to watch anyone torture an animal for fun and sport and simply call them toffs.

[A57 HSV]

Digby said:

A57 HSV said:

The majority of people in UK don't like them? Are you refereeing to this poll?:

No, but thanks for that. I was basing it on numerous things you can read and hear about and the fact that almost anyone you stop and ask would suggest they are murdering tts. Under the rug, I assume?

A57 HSV said:

So 1,971 people of age 15+ asked a series of questions which just conveniently included questions about Dog fighting and Badger baiting. Err okay!

I do know someone who can make uber-sized rugs if you are interested?

Thanks.

[Digby]

A57 HSV said:

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Digby said:

And there you have it.

Have a Mr Cameron, too..

Not sure on what your point is ?
I don't see a red coat. Does everyone look in fancy dress ? (do you know that is common riding where when also showjumping etc ?)

A mix of tweed and plain riding jackets and various colors of hats .Hardly the "pantomime costume etc." is it?

I'm assuming it's yet another inaccurate stereotype view that hunting with hounds is for Tory Toffs.

Edited by A57 HSV on Tuesday 30th May 17:09

Person 1: We have a possible fox issue...(can't say for sure - but who cares?)

Person 2: Ok, what do you suggest?

Person 1: I have an idea....(several hours of waffle)

Person 2: Wait...what? Horses, dogs with powerful jaws, matching outfits, horns, ?!! Have you completely lost your mind? Do you realise how much this will cost?!

Person 1: TOWNIE!!!

[A57 HSV]

Digby said:

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

You have consistently inferred a passionate dislike and version of name calling of the hunters- not I .

s and tossers, sure. Not toffs. That's far too lame (you mention it a few times, though)

I wouldn't be able to watch anyone torture an animal for fun and sport and simply call them toffs.

Again, why torture? You never answered last time I asked.

[kingston12]

Digby said:

kingston12 said:

Digby said:

Quote me. Happy to be corrected.

Got accused of saying "lycra clad warriors" by angry cyclists, too.

Wow, you pick your battles, don't you? The PH cycle collective and now this lot. Best of luck!

Look at the desperation, though!

One child has even run off crying to teacher, now!

I could do with seeing said teacher, however, seeing as I am apparently uneducated (this has to be a class thing?!!)

I'm not so sure it's a class thing, more rural vs. urban. The rural side seem to assume they are better educated, but not necessarily that they are of a higher social class.

I have largely bowed out of this thread because any anti-hunting arguments seem to get shouted down with the excuse that the person who made the point is a 'stupid townie' who should 'go back and read the thread again.' I have read the thread again and see no pro-hunting argument that would ever change my mind on the issue, nor much that actually answers the questions others have raised. Then again, I am just a 'stupid townie'...

I'll still keep an eye on this because it has the potential to be one of the longest running PH threads ever.

[Digby]

A57 HSV said:

Again, why torture? You never answered last time I asked.

I'll add "akin to" if it avoids someone getting the virtual kleenex out after posting a quote from the Oxford English..

[A57 HSV]

Digby said:

A57 HSV said:

Again, why torture? You never answered last time I asked.

I'll add "akin to" if it avoids someone getting the virtual kleenex out after posting a quote from the Oxford English..

Again you haven't answered the question.

Why "akin" to torture then? .

[Stickyfinger]

kingston12 said:

I'm not so sure it's a class thing, more rural vs. urban. The rural side seem to assume they are better educated, but not necessarily that they are of a higher social class.

I have largely bowed out of this thread because any anti-hunting arguments seem to get shouted down with the excuse that the person who made the point is a 'stupid townie' who should 'go back and read the thread again.' I have read the thread again and see no pro-hunting argument that would ever change my mind on the issue, nor much that actually answers the questions others have raised. Then again, I am just a 'stupid townie'...

I'll still keep an eye on this because it has the potential to be one of the longest running PH threads ever.

A little selective but thank you for reading the thread...

You would of noted then I have never said or called you a 'stupid townie'.....
I had answered the questions you raised a number of times already in the thread....


You HAD been informed that dogs kill almost instantly
You had been informed that shooting has a high (ish) wound rate vrs instant kill with hounds
You had been informed that "protection" is very hard and expensive
You had been informed that foxes that are lame/sick etc are particularly targeted by packs/day hunting
etc etc etc..........hence the re-read the thread request

If you do not agree or your sensibilities cannot allow you to accept these facts then fair and OK....but please do not try and make out there was anything other than answered question in the thread or that you had been insulted in the manor of your "quotes"

Edited by Stickyfinger on Tuesday 30th May 18:48

[colonel c]

Stickyfinger said:

You HAD been informed that dogs kill almost instantly

Instant kill! maybe? But often only after the poor creature has had to be dug out by the hunts resident terrier man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR3GER3GEQ

[kingston12]

Stickyfinger said:

kingston12 said:

I'm not so sure it's a class thing, more rural vs. urban. The rural side seem to assume they are better educated, but not necessarily that they are of a higher social class.

I have largely bowed out of this thread because any anti-hunting arguments seem to get shouted down with the excuse that the person who made the point is a 'stupid townie' who should 'go back and read the thread again.' I have read the thread again and see no pro-hunting argument that would ever change my mind on the issue, nor much that actually answers the questions others have raised. Then again, I am just a 'stupid townie'...

I'll still keep an eye on this because it has the potential to be one of the longest running PH threads ever.

A little selective but thank you for reading the thread...

You would of noted then I have never said or called you a 'stupid townie'.....
I had answered the questions you raised a number of this already in the thread....

If you do not agree fair and OK....but please do not try and make out there was anything other than answered question in the thread or that you had been insulted in the manor of your "quotes"

To be clear, I wasn't accusing you of calling me that

That phrase has been used on the thread, though, and the general pro-hunting arguments do seem to constantly go back that anyone who doesn't agree is rather ill-educated. I am sure most of us are thick-skinned enough not to worry too much about that.

I am happy to watch predominantly from the sidelines. I find the argument and the different positions quite fascinating even if I have got very little to add myself!

[Halb]

Stickyfinger said:

Maybe because it has a practical end result/application rather like catching rats/rabbits/pigeons...eg "pests/vermin" ?

Hares have not been a particularity large problem for a long long time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1477176/Wha...

Hare coursing didn't even have the pretence of use, like fox hunting pretends to use, it was just how quick can dogs kill a hare.

[Halb]

A57 HSV said:

Yet it's perfectly legal to hunt rabbits and rats with as many dogs/hounds as you want. Perhaps these were seen as more "working class".?

More likely it doesn't happen that much. I've seen many lampers round our way, not packs of hounds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbiting#United_Kin...

[A57 HSV]

colonel c said:

Stickyfinger said:

You HAD been informed that dogs kill almost instantly

Instant kill! maybe? But often only after the poor creature has had to be dug out by the hunts resident terrier man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR3GER3GEQ

I'm not particularly a fan of terrier work, but it is legal solely for the purpose of preventing or reducing serious damage to game birds or wild birds being kept or preserved to be shot. It will be at the request of the landowner.
I still see it as preferable and more humane than snaring and trapping though and unlike shooting at a distance there is no risk of wounding.

[A57 HSV]

Halb said:

Stickyfinger said:

Maybe because it has a practical end result/application rather like catching rats/rabbits/pigeons...eg "pests/vermin" ?

Hares have not been a particularity large problem for a long long time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1477176/Wha...

Hare coursing didn't even have the pretence of use, like fox hunting pretends to use, it was just how quick can dogs kill a hare.

Actually, competitive coursing under NCC rules awarded no points for a kill and it was positively discouraged for hares to be killed.

The type of illegal coursing that occurs today and is popular with the travelling community, does indeed often result in the hare being killed. This type of coursing was rarely legal before the ban as few landowners were keen to allow it, so it was illegal under the poaching rules.

[Halb]

A57 HSV said:

Actually, competitive coursing under NCC rules awarded no points for a kill and it was positively discouraged for hares to be killed.

The type of illegal coursing that occurs today and is popular with the travelling community, does indeed often result in the hare being killed. This type of coursing was rarely legal before the ban as few landowners were keen to allow it, so it was illegal under the poaching rules.

Thank you for that.

[A57 HSV]

Halb said:

A57 HSV said:

Yet it's perfectly legal to hunt rabbits and rats with as many dogs/hounds as you want. Perhaps these were seen as more "working class".?

More likely it doesn't happen that much. I've seen many lampers round our way, not packs of hounds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbiting#United_Kin...

Lamping is probably the most common method of shooting foxes. Whilst I accept it needs to be done and have seen it being done on farms, it's indiscriminate and you can't guarantee that they'll be no wounding.

[Stickyfinger]

A57 HSV said:

colonel c said:

Stickyfinger said:

You HAD been informed that dogs kill almost instantly

Instant kill! maybe? But often only after the poor creature has had to be dug out by the hunts resident terrier man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR3GER3GEQ

I'm not particularly a fan of terrier work, but it is legal solely for the purpose of preventing or reducing serious damage to game birds or wild birds being kept or preserved to be shot. It will be at the request of the landowner.
I still see it as preferable and more humane than snaring and trapping though and unlike shooting at a distance there is no risk of wounding.

Agree.....terrier working.

I do not know why the "sport" tag is used.....the ONE and ONLY aim is to kill the fox as quickly as possible, which they do. You may not like it or think it is very "sporting" but I can tell you farming and the care of livestock, game birds and crops is not a sport.

[A57 HSV]

Halb said:

A57 HSV said:

Actually, competitive coursing under NCC rules awarded no points for a kill and it was positively discouraged for hares to be killed.

The type of illegal coursing that occurs today and is popular with the travelling community, does indeed often result in the hare being killed. This type of coursing was rarely legal before the ban as few landowners were keen to allow it, so it was illegal under the poaching rules.

Thank you for that.

I should have said that with the "illegal" type of coursing, the aim is indeed to see which dog will kill the hare. Often large sums of money are bet.

Commonly, this is referred to as Informal coursing. the competitive and judged type is Formal coursing. There's a lot of misunderstanding about the differences.

Sadly, it's a real problem in some rural areas and I know of farmers who have had to virtually wipe out the hare population on their land to prevent it. Understandable though when they have had their gates and hedges smashed down, 4X4's driven across their fields and been threatened with knives and guns!

Edited by A57 HSV on Tuesday 30th May 19:59