The Gender Non-binary debate.

Author
Discussion

thetoxicnerve

20,401 posts

113 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
Hmmm...good point. Didn't think that one through did I? silly

So in which circumstances should people be permitted to change their legal status?

What if they identify as male, are attracted to women but just like to dress as women?

Goaty Bill 2

2,968 posts

55 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
thetoxicnerve said:
Hmmm...good point. Didn't think that one through did I? silly

So in which circumstances should people be permitted to change their legal status?

What if they identify as male, are attracted to women but just like to dress as women?
According to some, who insist on gender fluidity, gender may change at any time and several times during any given day.

A bit NSFW - language
How Many Genders Are There?


Trophy Husband

872 posts

43 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
I am a man (at least I think I am but someone may tell me otherwise!) in my late forties. I consider myself to be liberal to all variants of gender identification on an as and when basis ie. if and when I meet a real person who has made a 'choice' about how they want to identify themselves I will respect them as I should. However, it is not a real world issue to me purely based on statistics. What irks me is that whilst I understand the difficulties experienced by individuals with (FFS you have to be so careful about choice of words!!) different feelings about their own gender we all seem to have to be thinking about it more than we should need to. There is too much crusading going on and too much being rammed down our throats about it. I have two sons 5 & 6, we live in rural North Wales, they go to a small village school in a lovely community and I really don't see the need for them to be learning about these issues that affect such a very,very small proportion of the population. I am teaching them to respect and be kind to everyone they meet without exception and believe that that is enough for now. When they are older and I can explain things to them in a way that they can slowly grasp then that is what I will do. Until then, enough already.

Spanna

Original Poster:

3,520 posts

112 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
thetoxicnerve said:
Hmmm...good point. Didn't think that one through did I? silly

So in which circumstances should people be permitted to change their legal status?

What if they identify as male, are attracted to women but just like to dress as women?
Precisely the questions that need answering. My answer would be to take each case, if it comes to that, as individual. People are individuals and you can break down every part of someone until everyone is different to the next.

The vegan joke will become a gender non-binary thing soon. How do you know someone is gender non-binary? They'll fking tell you. Or be offended if you don't guess it I suppose.

Trophy Husband said:
I am a man (at least I think I am but someone may tell me otherwise!) in my late forties. I consider myself to be liberal to all variants of gender identification on an as and when basis ie. if and when I meet a real person who has made a 'choice' about how they want to identify themselves I will respect them as I should. However, it is not a real world issue to me purely based on statistics. What irks me is that whilst I understand the difficulties experienced by individuals with (FFS you have to be so careful about choice of words!!) different feelings about their own gender we all seem to have to be thinking about it more than we should need to. There is too much crusading going on and too much being rammed down our throats about it. I have two sons 5 & 6, we live in rural North Wales, they go to a small village school in a lovely community and I really don't see the need for them to be learning about these issues that affect such a very,very small proportion of the population. I am teaching them to respect and be kind to everyone they meet without exception and believe that that is enough for now. When they are older and I can explain things to them in a way that they can slowly grasp then that is what I will do. Until then, enough already.
I have a 7 year old son and feel exactly the same as you. Thing is with having kids and this going on is I feel I have to be up to date with it in case there's some far left teacher at school who wants to start teaching it. Or he comes across it through friends or online and starts asking questions. I need to know how to answer him.



Edited by Spanna on Wednesday 17th May 10:34

Rovinghawk

12,554 posts

94 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
Accepting that I'm not very clever, I think there's a simple solution:

If they have a little willy then they're a boy.
If they have a receptacle for a little willy then they're a girl.
If they have neither or both then special provision should be made.

Anything more complex is pointless.
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hyphen

8,271 posts

26 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
thetoxicnerve said:
So in which circumstances should people be permitted to change their legal status?
Following assessment by a suitably trained medical professional.

joshleb

728 posts

80 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
I remember seeing an article somewhere about women complaining of unisex loos and urinals, because it meant men were in the queue for loos when needed, and were taking a long time, increasing the queue for the women who need to use the cubicle.

JagLover

24,192 posts

171 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
thetoxicnerve said:
Hmmm...good point. Didn't think that one through did I? silly

So in which circumstances should people be permitted to change their legal status?

What if they identify as male, are attracted to women but just like to dress as women?
Personally I am with South Park on this issue (if anyone hasn't seen the episode where they lampoon this check it out). But if someone has actually undergone surgery then we should humor their delusion, if not they are the gender their genitalia defines them to be.



fatjon

1,941 posts

149 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
Cannot be arsed with pretending that I am as deluded as they are by humouring their delusion. If you are born with a chopper you're a man and if not you are a woman. If you are born with both or neither than fair enough, make your choicer and I'm happy enough to accept it.

PurpleAki

1,601 posts

23 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
These women need to man up...

IanH755

964 posts

56 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
Genetically you're either male or female i.e. XX or XY chromosones, even those with both sex organs are genetically one or the other.

Mentally however people can think whatever the hell they like as far as I''m concerned. I mean you can sexually identify as an Apache Attack Helicopter, if thats what floats your boat, just keep it to yourself as I don't need nor want to know.

Goaty Bill 2

2,968 posts

55 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
Trophy Husband said:
I am a man (at least I think I am but someone may tell me otherwise!) in my late forties. I consider myself to be liberal to all variants of gender identification on an as and when basis ie. if and when I meet a real person who has made a 'choice' about how they want to identify themselves I will respect them as I should. However, it is not a real world issue to me purely based on statistics. What irks me is that whilst I understand the difficulties experienced by individuals with (FFS you have to be so careful about choice of words!!) different feelings about their own gender we all seem to have to be thinking about it more than we should need to. There is too much crusading going on and too much being rammed down our throats about it. I have two sons 5 & 6, we live in rural North Wales, they go to a small village school in a lovely community and I really don't see the need for them to be learning about these issues that affect such a very,very small proportion of the population. I am teaching them to respect and be kind to everyone they meet without exception and believe that that is enough for now. When they are older and I can explain things to them in a way that they can slowly grasp then that is what I will do. Until then, enough already.
If you care about the issue at all, you should regularly check your school's policies on this.

I had the experience a couple of weeks ago, whilst leaving Sainsburys, there was a person in front of me that even from behind was clearly a male in a short skirt and high heels, carrying a bright handbag.

This was clearly not some professional drag queen out for a laugh.
The look on this person's face when I was walking past and made eye contact was one of shear terror.
One can only guess at the circumstances, but I would feel quite safe in theorising that the person was 'suffering' from gender dysphoria, and was very likely making one their first outings in public dressed in a very obvious way as a woman, possibly on the advice of a therapist or friend.

I have absolutely no desire to make this person even more miserable than they looked on that occasion (or any other time), and felt nothing but sympathy. I truly hope he/she finds the help and understanding and support they need, and some peace within themselves.
I also very much hope they don't end up in the hands of one of the extremist, politically motivated transgender rights groups.

There are various sites and experts quoting statistics out there, and the general accepted value seems to be between 0.1% and 0.3% of the population.
Odds are, if you don't live in or visit Brighton, Soho (London) or the Canal district (Manchester), you will probably never have any interactions with transgender people at all.

In Canada there is a bill currently with the senate, that could in principal make it a hate crime to 'mis-gender' someone in speech.
I have watched two sessions of the senate committee, and the gross disrespect shown by a few senators to the male 'witnesses', recalling that these are guests invited by the selfsame senate committee, was disgraceful, and not in keeping with the usual standards of decorum expected in Canada.

It is ideologically driven extremism at it's worst.

End discrimination fine and good - fully support it.
Force me to learn a hundred new gender names, and then guess someone's made up gender status on a minute by minute basis - fk off.


TTwiggy

10,064 posts

140 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
I wonder what impact this will have on the European Romance languages where every inanimate object is either male or female?

Hoofy

67,903 posts

218 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
Only the other day on Google Rewards I was asked if I identified with being LGBT+Q. I clicked "no" and was given 10p. #triggered

TurboHatchback

3,279 posts

89 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
I have no patience with the whole farce. I absolutely support and would defend the rights of everyone to dress how they like, shag who they like, talk how they like and have whatever plastic surgery they like done (so long as they pay for it themselves and are over 18). I will not however address people as what they are not just because they have mental health issues, not will I accept them flouting laws and social rules for the same reason (toilets, changing rooms, prisons, employment rules etc).

I'm afraid I just don't accept that 'gender' has any more meaning than the genitals you were born with. 'Identifying' is total bks to me, you are what you are. If I choose to 'identify' as black it doesn't make me black any more than 'identifying' as female would make me female. You are either male (born with meat and two veg), female (born with ladyparts), hermaphrodite (born with both) or androgynous (born with neither), that's it. Your 'gender' doesn't define how you should act, look or in fact anything other than the contents of your underwear.

Basically I support the rights of people to do whatever they like but not to inflict their choices on other people. If a man wants to wear a dress, high heels, makeup, talk in falsetto and marry another man that's absolutely fine however it's not fine for him to use the womens changing room or expect me to address him as female.

Goaty Bill 2

2,968 posts

55 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
I wonder what impact this will have on the European Romance languages where every inanimate object is either male or female?
What will they do with all those binary gendered objects one wonders?
Given French propensity for 1) following the latest PC trend; 2) ferociously protecting their language, I can't see this going well at all.

Not exactly the same excuse but...
Class focused on great Greco-Roman books may be changed after students complain it’s too white


R1gtr

3,092 posts

90 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
TurboHatchback said:
I have no patience with the whole farce. I absolutely support and would defend the rights of everyone to dress how they like, shag who they like, talk how they like and have whatever plastic surgery they like done (so long as they pay for it themselves and are over 18). I will not however address people as what they are not just because they have mental health issues, not will I accept them flouting laws and social rules for the same reason (toilets, changing rooms, prisons, employment rules etc).

I'm afraid I just don't accept that 'gender' has any more meaning than the genitals you were born with. 'Identifying' is total bks to me, you are what you are. If I choose to 'identify' as black it doesn't make me black any more than 'identifying' as female would make me female. You are either male (born with meat and two veg), female (born with ladyparts), hermaphrodite (born with both) or androgynous (born with neither), that's it. Your 'gender' doesn't define how you should act, look or in fact anything other than the contents of your underwear.

Basically I support the rights of people to do whatever they like but not to inflict their choices on other people. If a man wants to wear a dress, high heels, makeup, talk in falsetto and marry another man that's absolutely fine however it's not fine for him to use the womens changing room or expect me to address him as female.
Pretty much sums it up for me.

I always wanted to be a cowboy when I was younger and I mean REALLY wanted to be.
However I can strap on some chaps and throw on a Stetson and ride Dobbin down the high St but a Cowboy that does not make.

Would I expect people to look at me in my splendour galloping past saying " look there's a cowboy"
Nope, I would expect "There's mental Davey on a pony" and quite rightly so.

As a side note, no wonder kids are confused, I'm grown adult and I have no idea what that gender unicorn is all about!

ReallyReallyGood

957 posts

66 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
It's liberalism gone too far, courtesy of our modern education system.

In a few years time when there are enough graduates coming through the system it'll all be about safe spaces and trigger warnings in public/work place.

This kind of s**t is why Trump won.



Shuvi McTupya

21,450 posts

183 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
IanH755 said:
Mentally however people can think whatever the hell they like as far as I''m concerned. I mean you can sexually identify as an Apache Attack Helicopter, if thats what floats your boat, just keep it to yourself as I don't need nor want to know.
yes

Pretty much how I feel about religion too. Believe or think what ever you like, it has nothing to do with me so just keep it to yourself if you are worried what I might think about it.

Shuvi McTupya

21,450 posts

183 months

Wednesday 17th May 2017
quotequote all
And while we are on the subject...what is this transvestite thing all about?

A guy wants to dress 'as a woman'. Women wear jeans and Jumpers too don't they? Isn't making a point of putting on a mini skirt and skimpy top just objectifying women, or some shiite like that?