The Gender Non-binary debate.
Discussion
George Smiley said:
Shelioning - when transgender folk keep dodging answers to questions they know there's only one moral answer but don't want to admit it
Oh, very droll. 
Nobody has dodged your questions, but we sure as f
k are sick of answering them. Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Saturday 16th March 14:38
Clockwork Cupcake said:
But, yes, it does go both ways. Which means, given that it goes both ways, that the man has as much of a duty to say "I hope you weren't born a man" as the trans woman apparently has a duty to say "Oh, just so you know, I was born a man". It's not all down to her.
Might spoil the 'mood' somewhat if she wasn't though...Buggles said:
Sexytown is a very underused and underrated word! 
Nowhere in your post, do you acknowledge that there may be upset caused to someone other than the trans woman.
I completely agree that it is in the trans woman's interest to fess up if necessary/make a judgement call if their potential suitor starts looking like a less than safe bet.
But let's say for example, your rendezvous in a nightclub did lead to a nefarious outcome, and the chap found out the next day and was genuinely upset by what he discovered. Would you hand on heart just think 'fk you, you should have asked' or would you perhaps think that maybe it should have been mentioned?
Like I said, I'm all about respect. I respect you and your feelings and I'd hope that you'd respect any potential suitor's feelings. Do you see where I'm coming from?
if someone's own prejudice and bigotry causes them upset, then that is on them not the target of their prejudice Nowhere in your post, do you acknowledge that there may be upset caused to someone other than the trans woman.
I completely agree that it is in the trans woman's interest to fess up if necessary/make a judgement call if their potential suitor starts looking like a less than safe bet.
But let's say for example, your rendezvous in a nightclub did lead to a nefarious outcome, and the chap found out the next day and was genuinely upset by what he discovered. Would you hand on heart just think 'f
k you, you should have asked' or would you perhaps think that maybe it should have been mentioned? Like I said, I'm all about respect. I respect you and your feelings and I'd hope that you'd respect any potential suitor's feelings. Do you see where I'm coming from?
Buggles said:
Like I said, I'm all about respect. I respect you and your feelings and I'd hope that you'd respect any potential suitor's feelings. Do you see where I'm coming from?
For sure. But, as I said, it's not a scenario that is going to happen. Trans women can, and do, get beaten up (or worse) just for being trans when they encounter violent transphobes, so obviously in the real world they are going to make pretty damn sure who they are going to sleep with. It's not a matter of feelings or causing offence, but plain self-preservation.
So, this really is a non-debate. It's not going to happen. No trans woman is going to try to trick a man into sex. Why would she run that risk?
Edit: For the avoidance of doubt, I mean "In addition to, and on top of the matter of the man's feelings, there is the matter of self-preservation, that would mean this wouldn't happen".
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Saturday 16th March 15:07
Clockwork Cupcake said:
catso said:
Might spoil the 'mood' somewhat if she wasn't though...
Well, quite. But that's a small price to pay to avoid the terrible thing of accidentally bedding "a trans" (sic) though. 
I don't think my Mrs would have been too impressed if I'd asked her if she was a Man on our first date.
catso said:
I suspect asking that question of every Woman might prevent one from ever bedding any Woman.
I don't think my Mrs would have been too impressed if I'd asked her if she was a Man on our first date.
Tough sI don't think my Mrs would have been too impressed if I'd asked her if she was a Man on our first date.
t. You have the choice of asking or not asking, you don't get to transfer the burden of your prejudice onto the women you're sleeping with.descentia said:
Buggles said:
8.4L 154 said:
if someone's own prejudice and bigotry causes them upset, then that is on them not the target of their prejudice
So fk them and their feelings then? It's not about prejudice or bigotry, you dimwit. You pull a woman in dark night club under the influence of drink for both of you , you go back somewhere and manage to do the deed. Then in the morning you wake up to discover a complete and utter minger that if it hadn't been dark and without beer googles you would have avoided to the depth of your soul.
Do you ask her to apologise for not declaring her failings to meet your minimum standards ?
George Smiley said:
She may have been minging but in your example she was female so a different scenario yet again
It's your prejudice and bigotry that makes it different, that's the point. If the idea of sleeping with a trans woman who you were completely unable to identify when you had sex with and were attracted to her, is so repulsive to you it is absolutely on you, not them. Davos123 said:
catso said:
I suspect asking that question of every Woman might prevent one from ever bedding any Woman.
I don't think my Mrs would have been too impressed if I'd asked her if she was a Man on our first date.
Tough sI don't think my Mrs would have been too impressed if I'd asked her if she was a Man on our first date.
t. You have the choice of asking or not asking, you don't get to transfer the burden of your prejudice onto the women you're sleeping with.Edited by SWoll on Saturday 16th March 17:02
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